Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #9057
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I think I can make a case that Delusion = Zeus, but I need to do a bit of research into first.

    There is a lot of overlap with the 10-masters, so if you can find something in the flavor text that supports it, I can add it (or at least a note about it) to the duplicates list.

    #9061
    Captain Vendari
    Participant

    Delusion Flavor Text:
    “Captained by Fitzgerald, who was stabbed in the back by Blackheart for a gold medallion and left to die, and crewed by pirates killed for their treasure by their own former crewmen, the Delusion haunts the seas searching for the gold that was stolen from her in life. A glowing mirage on even the most moonless waves, the Delusion tricks greedy sailors into believing that piles of “glowing gold” await just over the horizon. But this “delusion” only means that their lives and treasure become the eternal property of the damned.”

    We know that Blackheart took command of the Zeus from the Jade Rebellion (the flavor text specifically states that it was originally Baochuan). However, in Rise of the Fiends, where Delusion is featured, Blackheart captains a new ship: Fool’s Hope. So what happened to the Zeus?  Why is Blackheart on a new ship? According to the Delusion‘s flavor text above, we see Blackheart mentioned leaving Fitzgerald to die. It’s a loose tie, but Blackheart is already associated with another 10-master, so it shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to believe that it’s not necessarily a different ship.

    I do have more, but I don’t have time to type it up right now.

    #9171
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Delusion Flavor Text:
    “Captained by Fitzgerald, who was stabbed in the back by Blackheart for a gold medallion and left to die, and crewed by pirates killed for their treasure by their own former crewmen, the Delusion haunts the seas searching for the gold that was stolen from her in life. A glowing mirage on even the most moonless waves, the Delusion tricks greedy sailors into believing that piles of “glowing gold” await just over the horizon. But this “delusion” only means that their lives and treasure become the eternal property of the damned.”

    We know that Blackheart took command of the Zeus from the Jade Rebellion (the flavor text specifically states that it was originally Baochuan). However, in Rise of the Fiends, where Delusion is featured, Blackheart captains a new ship: Fool’s Hope. So what happened to the Zeus? Why is Blackheart on a new ship? According to the Delusion‘s flavor text above, we see Blackheart mentioned leaving Fitzgerald to die. It’s a loose tie, but Blackheart is already associated with another 10-master, so it shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to believe that it’s not necessarily a different ship.

    I do have more, but I don’t have time to type it up right now.

    It’s a stretch, at best. The flavor text doesn’t rule out the possibility, but doesn’t do anything at all to suggest it either. Blackheart has been through numerous ships over the various sets, so being associated with a different one after Zeus doesn’t say anything about the fate of Zeus.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that RotF, and Cursed Seas in general, was set up as sort of a “reboot” for the whole series. The flavor text for Fool’s Hope sounds much more like something that happened early in Blackheart’s career, long before declaring himself “Emperor”, and arguably even before he had Harbinger.

    #9197
    Karningul
    Participant

    Do the Jade Rebellion versions of the Clear Wind and the Divine Wind have the same ability? I noticed that the master spreadsheet gives them the same ability, but the actual text on their cards is different.

    The Divine Wind has the standard wording for her ability: “If this ship shoots at a ship that was previously shot at by another ship this turn, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls against that ship this turn.”

    The Clear Wind has: “If this ship shoots at a ship that was previously shot at this turn, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls against that ship this turn.” Nothing in there about requiring it to be a different ship. Read literally, would shooting one of this ship’s cannons at a ship give the following shots within the same shoot action the bonus, or does “previously shot at” refer specifically to a shoot action and not an individual cannon shot? If it does refer to an entire shoot action, would she grant herself the bonus if she got an extra action and used it to shoot again at the same ship she had already shot at with her original action?

    It might be worth noting that the Cursed version of the Clear Wind from Ocean’s Edge changed the wording to the usual version, where it requires a different ship.

     

    #9226
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Do the Jade Rebellion versions of the Clear Wind and the Divine Wind have the same ability? I noticed that the master spreadsheet gives them the same ability, but the actual text on their cards is different.

    The Divine Wind has the standard wording for her ability: “If this ship shoots at a ship that was previously shot at by another ship this turn, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls against that ship this turn.”

    The Clear Wind has: “If this ship shoots at a ship that was previously shot at this turn, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls against that ship this turn.” Nothing in there about requiring it to be a different ship. Read literally, would shooting one of this ship’s cannons at a ship give the following shots within the same shoot action the bonus, or does “previously shot at” refer specifically to a shoot action and not an individual cannon shot? If it does refer to an entire shoot action, would she grant herself the bonus if she got an extra action and used it to shoot again at the same ship she had already shot at with her original action?

    It might be worth noting that the Cursed version of the Clear Wind from Ocean’s Edge changed the wording to the usual version, where it requires a different ship.

    I don’t know why the text is slightly different, but I think they were meant to be the same ability.

    In any case, the bonus is based on shoot actions, not individual cannons being shot. Clear Wind would only get the bonus from itself if it used an additional action to make a second shoot action. The bonus doesn’t kick in immediately after firing the first cannon in the first shoot action.

    #9555
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Unsurprisingly ran into some Rules questions in my 6×150 game that concluded today:

    If a native canoe finds the Marines UT, does it leave the game or stay on the island?

    Neptune’s Trident – does it affect ships docked at HI’s?  Can you measure the S width S away from the ship and protruding at a perpendicular angle? (I may need to show diagram/picture)

    Can you activate Ghost Ship while in a fog bank to choose your exit location or simply start moving the ship from its heading within the fog bank as if the fog bank wasn’t there?

    Silly: Can you ignore a ship’s stern flag for moving purposes since it’s not a solid object?  (or must ram)

    If a Black Mark crew is captured by Dragon Eyes, can the Cursed crew on the now-Spanish ship not use their abilities? (or does Black Mark turn the ship Cursed for the whole game)

    #9567
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If a native canoe finds the Marines UT, does it leave the game or stay on the island?

    It just removes itself without doing anything to the canoe.

    Neptune’s Trident – does it affect ships docked at HI’s? Can you measure the S width S away from the ship and protruding at a perpendicular angle? (I may need to show diagram/picture)

    Yes. It is a shoot action, but the HI isn’t the target so the shooting restriction doesn’t protect it.

    Some part of the S edge has to touch your ship, but beyond that, the angle is pretty flexible.

    Can you activate Ghost Ship while in a fog bank to choose your exit location or simply start moving the ship from its heading within the fog bank as if the fog bank wasn’t there?

    You can activate GS, but you still have to roll normally for the exit to establish your location.

    Silly: Can you ignore a ship’s stern flag for moving purposes since it’s not a solid object? (or must ram)

    It’s part of the ship, so you can’t ignore it.

    If a Black Mark crew is captured by Dragon Eyes, can the Cursed crew on the now-Spanish ship not use their abilities? (or does Black Mark turn the ship Cursed for the whole game)

    The ship reverts back if the BM crew leaves, so Cursed crew would stop working unless you had something else to allow them.

    #9668
    Ben
    Keymaster

    My question concerns using the unreleased Fort St. Phillip (in a draft of Revolution) in conjunction with native canoes.  (now that I think about it, El Puerto Blanco has the same ability)

    Fort St. Phillip
    4 gold
    3S-3S-3S-3L-3L-3L
    A ship docked here may use its action to look at one face-down cargo on each island.

    Do all of the canoes sacrifice their action at once in order to use the ability regardless of how many are docked there?  Or does it only require one canoe?  Do they all have to be docked there at once?  If it only requires one, can the other canoes be given their (same) actions normally?  If 5 canoes are docked at the fort, can you use the ability 5 times?

    (sorry if these questions are all basically the same idea)

    #9687
    Woelf
    Moderator

    My question concerns using the unreleased Fort St. Phillip (in a draft of Revolution) in conjunction with native canoes. (now that I think about it, El Puerto Blanco has the same ability)

    Fort St. Phillip
    4 gold
    3S-3S-3S-3L-3L-3L
    A ship docked here may use its action to look at one face-down cargo on each island.

    Do all of the canoes sacrifice their action at once in order to use the ability regardless of how many are docked there? Or does it only require one canoe? Do they all have to be docked there at once? If it only requires one, can the other canoes be given their (same) actions normally? If 5 canoes are docked at the fort, can you use the ability 5 times?

    Each canoe counts as an individual ship so if all five were docked you could use it five times.

    The “same action” requirement applies, so if one does it, then that’s the only action available to the others. Any that weren’t docked there would have to sit doing nothing.

    #9702
    Kai
    Participant

    Question about Broadsides Attack:

     

    <span class=”fontstyle0″>-</span><span class=”fontstyle1″>Broadsides Attack </span><span class=”fontstyle0″>ignores all defensive abilities of the target ship, except those that make it an invalid target for a
    shoot action. </span>

    What exactly counts as a defensive ability here? Specifically, ships that need to be hit twice in the same shoot action to lose a mast, would those be “immune” to Broadsides Attack or would the keyword cancel that ability?

    #9703
    Ben
    Keymaster

    What exactly counts as a defensive ability here? Specifically, ships that need to be hit twice in the same shoot action to lose a mast, would those be “immune” to Broadsides Attack or would the keyword cancel that ability?

    BA ignores that ability, but doesn’t cancel it. (since it would still work against other ships not using BA on that same turn)

    In the Pirate Code entry, I think the defensive abilities listed are all of the things that prevent BA from working.  Anything else gets ignored. (AFAIK)

    As a dramatic example, (spoiler alert) HMS Bretwalda hit on a Broadsides Attack against El Acorazado at the end of my giant Defence of St. Helens game to effectively clinch the game for the attackers.

    #9705
    Kai
    Participant

    Cheers for the answer, much appreciated. We’ve had a pretty long break from playing Pirates and are starting to appreciate some lesser used pieces now.

    #9712
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Another question about an unreleased game piece:

    Blackfoot Bill
    Pirate
    2 points
    Ability: When this ship is damaged, remove any crew member, except this one, instead of a mast.

    Would this apply to fire masts?  I would think not, because the intent behind “remove” is more similar to “eliminate” than “replace”.

    #9715
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Blackfoot Bill
    Pirate
    2 points
    Ability: When this ship is damaged, remove any crew member, except this one, instead of a mast.

    Would this apply to fire masts? I would think not, because the intent behind “remove” is more similar to “eliminate” than “replace”.

    It was from before firemasts existed, so I think it would have been intended to work only on full removals, like from a standard cannon hit or a ram – not replacement.

    #9723
    Thomas
    Participant

    Reverse captain ability Question

     

    If a ship with the reverse captain ability also has a captain crew on it can you move shoot and then move again?

    #9724
    Ben
    Keymaster

    If a ship with the reverse captain ability also has a captain crew on it can you move shoot and then move again?

    No, not without an extra action.  See Page 20.

    #9742
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Terrain Question?

    Since most terrain like Icebergs, Sargasso Sea, Trade Current, and Forts (technically not terrain) are hard to come by or out of print, how can noobs like myself fabricate this terrain to incorporate them into our play experience? I have seen all but Sargasso Sea, Iceberg, and Trade Current. I was able to crop a Reef, Whirlpool, and Fog Bank from a random Vassal pic I found in Google images. I guess I can print those out and use them, but I cannot find a pic for an Iceberg, Sargasso Sea, or Trade Current. There is one Fort I can buy that is still available, but I would like to incorporate more. Sorry for the long post…Avast ye scurvy dogs!!!

    #9743
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Vassal?

    Is it possible to grab images of terrain from Vassal to print out for tabletop play including Forts, etc? There has to be a way to customize terrain and other elements such as Forts for those of us who have missed the boat per say early on and coming in late to the game. By the way, how do I post a new topic in the Forum?

    #9744
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Since most terrain like Icebergs, Sargasso Sea, Trade Current, and Forts (technically not terrain) are hard to come by or out of print, how can noobs like myself fabricate this terrain to incorporate them into our play experience?

    They’re all out of print, but none of those are extremely rare.  Just depends on the set in terms of which packs might have specific terrain or forts (latter of which were only in CC and RV).

    You could cut out paper shapes and color them in and write “Reef”/etc on them.  In addition to printing out pictures.  In the Saved from MT post there is a link to the MT database pictures where some scans can be found. (might be too small for practical printing)

    Don’t ever be sorry for “long” posts!  Imagine what went into some of my stuff.  XD

    Is it possible to grab images of terrain from Vassal to print out for tabletop play including Forts, etc?

    Yup; I would zoom in on the area and use the Snipping Tool or a similar thing on your computer to take a picture of the screen.  RV packs are readily available and there should be more than one fort available for individual sale; the actual forts are very cool.

    By the way, how do I post a new topic in the Forum?

    Go to the bottom of the main forum page and you should see the entry fields to make a new topic.

    #9746
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Are you able to customize Forts in Vassal?

    #9747
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Are you able to customize Forts in Vassal?

    Yes indeed!  Feel free to check out the video tutorial on the main page for it.

    #9761
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Ahoy Ben!

    I learned something new today about islands. I learned they have an island on one side and a fog bank, reef, sargasso sea, etc…on the other side. How cool is that?

    Still haven’t found any trade currents, whirlpools, or icebergs yet. I just need to get the islands from the frozen north or proxy a fog bank for an iceberg?

    =/\=

    #9765
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I just need to get the islands from the frozen north or proxy a fog bank for an iceberg?

    Exactly.  That’s how we’ve done icebergs in VASSAL actually – with fog banks that have a face up coin for the number in the middle.

    #9767
    Randy
    Participant

    That’s a great idea to make additional bergs!! Love it. We have a set of 2-6 but we want a 1 as well. Good tips!

    #9769
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Ahoy Ben & Randy!

    Great ideas, problem solved with Icebergs! What about Trade Currents? Would it be possible to get a picture of that game piece or is it also in Vassal?

    =/\=

    #9770
    Ben
    Keymaster

    What about Trade Currents? Would it be possible to get a picture of that game piece or is it also in Vassal?

    I’m actually not seeing any pictures of trade currents with a few quick looks.  They are in VASSAL, as you can see if you download the module.

    #9782
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    @Captain Plunder, firstly, welcome to the site! Secondly, if you really want to you can make you own terrain. Just cut out the shape you want (or trace the shape of an island you already have) color it in, and write what kind of terrain it is. I made several trade current terrain this way before I started using the islands from Spanish Main (SM) as trade currents, since the flip-side of those islands are blank white.

    Official WizKids Trade Currents were only available in the last set, Savage Shoes (SS), which was NOT sold in game packs, but was sold in booster BOXES, which contained one pre-built ship from SS, and what amounted to three (or two, I’m not certain) packs worth of SS as well as a packs’ worth from Rise of the Fiends and Fire and Steel.

    I have one official trade current, but I’m not sue how to post a picture to the forum here.

    If you really want your mind blown, or enjoy ‘customizing’ the game, check out the Custom Ships thread, as well as the Custom Ships Organized thread, where you can find all of the custom game pieces that me, Ben, and a few others have made.

    #9784
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Official WizKids Trade Currents were only available in the last set, Savage Shoes (SS), which was NOT sold in game packs, but was sold in booster BOXES, which contained one pre-built ship from SS, and what amounted to three (or two, I’m not certain) packs worth of SS as well as a packs’ worth from Rise of the Fiends and Fire and Steel.

    SS boxes are called Scavenger Pack boxes, not a true booster box like the regular 18 and 36 count boxes.  They have 3 packs’ worth of SS.

    I have one official trade current, but I’m not sue how to post a picture to the forum here.

    I posted a thread about that and now the information is also in a sticky right at the top of the forum.

    #9790
    Captain Plunder
    Participant

    Ahoy Xerecs!

    Thanks for welcoming me to the site. I am enjoying the friendly atmosphere Ben and crew facilitate here.  Making my own terrain is a great idea and I hope to upgrade to foam islands when I have played for a while. I like the idea of perspective and filling the table out more. I found a trade current in Vassal and plan on using the snipping tool to capture the image and print it out for use in my games. I also like the idea of placing forts on islands, again the perspective thing. I can do that in Vassal too. I only wish there were crew cards and a way to someday have a full inventory of everything Pirates!

    Wishful thinking must be clouding me judgement!!! Why is all the rum gone!?!

    =/\=

    #9828
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Sounds like it’s been mostly covered, but for terrain in general, the exact size or look isn’t critical at all. You can take any piece of paper that’s roughly the size of an island with the name written on it. The only ones that need anything extra are the fog banks and icebergs, which need six evenly-spaced points around the outside numbered 1-6.

    Size doesn’t actually matter, and often they can be more fun if they’re significantly larger than islands. Then they become much more of an obstacle, and not something that can be mostly easily avoided.

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