Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • This topic has 129 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Woelf.
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  • #4015
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Woelf, let’s say I load Ghostly Encounter on a ship with one crew, and I roll for its effect then. Can I transfer Encounter to a ship with a whole lot of crew and use that ship to dump Encounter on the HI without risking any crew?

    Yes. Ghostly Encounter’s effect only applies when first revealed, and that locks in the gold value. After that you can safely transfer it between ships like other treasure without rolling, but the value won’t change either.

    #4016
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Can a Scorpion ship use its blade immediately after going through a whirlpool, without an extra action?

    No, exiting the whirlpool ends the entire move action, and any actions that would attach to it.

    #4017
    Jack
    Participant

    Can I get an F for my Ghostly Encounter turbo strat

    #4020
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Question about building forts. According to the rules, you must have a ship docked at a wild island you have explored in order to build a fort, which is built at the end of the turn.

    Does the island that I want to build the fort on have to be explored on that turn, or can it be an island I’ve explored on another turn?

    I’m asking because according to the rules, if it’s an island I’ve explored on any turn, any ship can dock in an explorer island and build a fort as long as it stays docked at the end of the turn, and explore actions aren’t needed.

    #4021
    Jack
    Participant

    I can answer this one.

    You must have explored the island and have a ship docked at it. Doesn’t matter when you explored it.

    Also, you can’t mark it explored with a crew like James Cook and dock a ship at it. You have to have made an actual explore action.

    #4022
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Whoa, that’s crazy. Makes my Mermaid not only a treasure runner, but also a fort builder since she can just zip to wherever is needed and lay the fort down. Thanks!

    #4023
    Jack
    Participant

    Yep! I like to use ships like Mermaid, Rover, Snipe, and Zephyr as fort builders.

    Snipe also doubles as a fort-killer.

    #4025
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Also, you can’t mark it explored with a crew like James Cook and dock a ship at it. You have to have made an actual explore action.

    I’m not sure why that wouldn’t work.  The Rules/Code says:

    • You must have a ship docked at a wild island you have explored in order to build a fort there.

    –One of your ships must have explored the island.

    Code on S-Exploring:

    -This ability does not provide an explore action and does not allow you to look at any treasure on the island. It only allows the placement of an “explored” marker, which will allow your ships to explore as a free action when they dock at the island.

    Once they dock there it is explored as a free action, meaning it has been explored before the end of turn when the fort would be built.

    I’m not sure why that wouldn’t work; hopefully Woelf will chime in on this one too.

    #4027
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    I have another question, this time on the Divers event. It doesn’t trigger when a ship is scuttled because of a fire mast, right? For example, I shoot an enemy and leave it with only fire masts. On its next turn, it scuttles. However, I’m not sure if that counts as my ship sinking it or not.

    #4028
    Ben
    Keymaster

    It doesn’t trigger when a ship is scuttled because of a fire mast, right?

    Correct.  You must reveal it immediately after sinking an enemy ship.  For the purposes of the event, the ship doesn’t get credit for the sinking retroactively from the scuttling. (especially because that scuttle can be avoided if the ship can row to safety/etc)

    You may reveal this event immediately after one of your ships sinks an enemy ship

    It is sunk by a hit, scuttling removes the sinking attribution from the ship effectively doing the sinking.  (starting to go on a Captain Jack ramble XD)

    (99% sure, hopefully Woelf will confirm)

    #4039
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Also, you can’t mark it explored with a crew like James Cook and dock a ship at it. You have to have made an actual explore action.

    I’m not sure why that wouldn’t work.

    Timing matters. If you mark the island before docking you get the free explore action. If you dock first, you’ll need a separate explore action.

    Either way, you have to actually explore before you can build a fort – a marker alone isn’t enough.

    #4040
    Woelf
    Moderator

    It doesn’t trigger when a ship is scuttled because of a fire mast, right?

    Correct. You must reveal it immediately after sinking an enemy ship. For the purposes of the event, the ship doesn’t get credit for the sinking retroactively from the scuttling. (especially because that scuttle can be avoided if the ship can row to safety/etc)

    You may reveal this event immediately after one of your ships sinks an enemy ship

    It is sunk by a hit, scuttling removes the sinking attribution from the ship effectively doing the sinking. (starting to go on a Captain Jack ramble XD)

    (99% sure, hopefully Woelf will confirm)

    Correct. It has to be a hit that sinks the ship immediately. Scuttling the ship later doesn’t count, even if nothing else touches the ship in between.

    Thematically, the divers are salvaging cargo from the destroyed ship as it goes down, not pulling treasure off the sea floor.

    #4066
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Hey guys, important question about submerged ships and monsters. Can they ram without surfacing? Someone on MT mentioned that the Nautilus could ram a ship, not get pinned, and still be submerged so it’d be impervious to counterattack. Would that same situation happen with a submerged sea monster?

    #4068
    Jack
    Participant

    Only submarines can ram while submerged:

    Sea Monster: If submerged, a sea monster can only move; it cannot shoot or be shot at, and it cannot dock or touch other ships

    Submarine:  A submerged submarine may ram another ship, but regardless of success it must immediately be moved S away from the target instead of boarding.

    #4069
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Can a Submarine dock while submerged?

    #4070
    Jack
    Participant

    Nope.

     

    Full text for submarine on the master keyword list:

    A ship with this keyword printed on its deckplate card has removable hull pieces that are treated exactly the same as masts on a normal ship. At the beginning of your turn, decide if the submarine is submerged or on the surface. If submerged, lift the submarine’s hull from its base so only the “spine” is showing (the hull is set aside, and is still used to track damage to the submarine). When the submarine is on the surface replace the hull (minus any previously eliminated hull pieces). If submerged, a submarine can only move; it cannot shoot or be shot at, it cannot repair, it cannot dock, and it cannot be rammed. A submerged submarine may ram another ship, but regardless of success it must immediately be moved S away from the target instead of boarding. If a submarine is on the surface it functions exactly like a normal ship, except that it cannot pin or be pinned, cannot tow or be towed, and is not damaged when rammed (it can still board and be boarded normally).

    #4071
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Hmm, interesting. I have one last question concerning subs. According to the rules, they must immediately move S away from their targets after ramming. One, does this happen even if the sub rams while surfaced? And two, does the immediate S move action interrupt a captain action? For example, the Nautilus rams Le Bon Marin. Can it shoot at any point in that action?

     

    I think that, according to the pocket guide, the shoot action happens before the ram so the sub could move, shoot, ram, and then move S, but correct me if I’m wrong.

    EDIT: never mind, I forgot that you can only ram, not shoot while submerged. The Nautilus will only be able to ram the Bon Marin but won’t be able to shoot unless it’s surfaced.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Mechavelli.
    #4074
    Ben
    Keymaster

    One, does this happen even if the sub rams while surfaced?

    No.

    And two, does the immediate S move action interrupt a captain action?

    Therefore, no.  The sub can’t shoot while submerged, and has no S segment to move while ramming on the surface.  The S segment is not a move action.  The Nautilus would actually shoot at the Bon Marin before applying ram damage in that example if she was on the surface, because the order of operations goes move>shoot>ram>board.

    #4118
    Jack
    Participant

    Can I put Ned Lands on board a ship with the effect “this ship gets +1 to its boarding rolls” and/or “this ship gets +1 to its boarding rolls, +2 if her opponent is a sea monster?” Ned Lands’s effect IS different than theirs, technically.

    #4152
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Can I put Ned Lands on board a ship with the effect “this ship gets +1 to its boarding rolls” and/or “this ship gets +1 to its boarding rolls, +2 if her opponent is a sea monster?” Ned Lands’s effect IS different than theirs, technically.

    The +1 boarding part is the same on each of those, so against a normal ship you’d get only a single +1 to boarding.

    Ned giving both options isn’t different enough from the other versions of that ability that target only one or the other, so you’d only get a single +2 bonus if the target was a sea monster or submarine.

    However, against a SM or Sub you could combine Ned’s secondary +2 with a “standard” +1 from the boarding ability of another ship/crew for a combined +3, because that is different enough.

    #4387
    Ben
    Keymaster

    -Broadsides Attack prevents the use of all other offensive abilities that could apply to the shoot action, including but not limited to the Longship keyword, the Musketeer keyword, abilities that eliminate crew, abilities that eliminate additional masts, and abilities that can modify or re-roll the die.

    Does that include the Reverse Captain ability that lets you move after shooting?

    #4392
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Necklace of the Sky: “Load this treasure face down. Give this ship a move action, but do not move her. Instead, reveal this treasure and dock this ship at any wild island. Then unload this treasure at that island; for the rest of the game, no ship in your fleet can load this treasure.”

    The Pirate Code says:

    -An explore action is required to unload this treasure; it does not unload automatically. The ship must unload this treasure before it can leave the island.

    Regardless of the treasure unloading rules, I feel that this PC ruling directly contradicts the actual ability text of the UT.  “Then unload this treasure” indicates that unloading happens immediately as a free action after docking.  Forcing the ship to explore the island just to chuck a necklace overboard also feels like a strange mechanic.

    Xerecs saw the above ruling that is currently relevant to CG4; I played the UT “wrong” in CG1 and CTO, but I think I will continue to do so at least in solo games at this point, since it’s more fun and less confusing that way.

    #4452
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Could have sworn that I replied to this the other day, but apparently it got eaten somehow.

    Necklace of the Sky: “Load this treasure face down. Give this ship a move action, but do not move her. Instead, reveal this treasure and dock this ship at any wild island. Then unload this treasure at that island; for the rest of the game, no ship in your fleet can load this treasure.”

    The Pirate Code says:

    -An explore action is required to unload this treasure; it does not unload automatically. The ship must unload this treasure before it can leave the island.

    Regardless of the treasure unloading rules, I feel that this PC ruling directly contradicts the actual ability text of the UT. “Then unload this treasure” indicates that unloading happens immediately as a free action after docking. Forcing the ship to explore the island just to chuck a necklace overboard also feels like a strange mechanic.

    Xerecs saw the above ruling that is currently relevant to CG4; I played the UT “wrong” in CG1 and CTO, but I think I will continue to do so at least in solo games at this point, since it’s more fun and less confusing that way.

    It’s been a long time, but I think this is one that ended up getting clarified directly with the designer (Kelly?) back when that was still an option. The lack of an explicit “as a free action” phrasing on the unload is what makes it ambiguous, and the intent (apparently?) was that it wasn’t meant to be free.

    Being able to teleport across the table is powerful effect either way, but I agree that doing it for free would make it a lot more useful.

    #4453
    Woelf
    Moderator

    -Broadsides Attack prevents the use of all other offensive abilities that could apply to the shoot action, including but not limited to the Longship keyword, the Musketeer keyword, abilities that eliminate crew, abilities that eliminate additional masts, and abilities that can modify or re-roll the die.

    Does that include the Reverse Captain ability that lets you move after shooting?

    Technically, yes. The ability generates a completely separate action, but it’s still directly triggered by the BA shoot action.

    This is one that you could safely house rule to allow – it’s not like there’s an overabundance of reverse-captains being used in general.

    #5293
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Can a player choose the order with a Switchblade ram when there’s a blade ram and a regular ram? (or must blades come first)

    Can you explore two friendly ships at once with one explore action? (between three ships at once for a double/three-way transfer)

    When towing, can you move S, drop the derelict/flotilla, and then continue with the rest of the segments you’d normally have? (and if so, can you use a helmsman bonus after dropping the flotilla)

    #5334
    jetmoto-1996
    Participant

    Maybe i missed the thread for this but I need an answer to this question as it has been a point of contention in my play group for a long time.  The game rules are very unclear about sea monsters, can they explore and get treasure or not?  Since they can board and get treasure some feel that they can dock too.  Sea Monsters such as Gog-Clocthoth and Jormungandr (yɔrmunˌɡandr̥) are quite useful when allowed to do this.  Any help is appreciated.

    #5336
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Maybe i missed the thread for this but I need an answer to this question as it has been a point of contention in my play group for a long time.

    Merged with this sticky thread since this is the thread for all Rules questions.

    The game rules are very unclear about sea monsters, can they explore and get treasure or not?

    Check out the rules for Sea Creatures in the Complete Game Rules.

    Sea creatures can’t be rammed, pinned, or boarded. Nor can they ram, load treasure, tow, or be assigned crew. Sea creatures can be given only move and shoot actions.

    Titan is the only sea creature keyword that allows for exploring an island.  Other creature types can dock but not explore, per the Code.

    -A sea creature is docked if any part of it (including a segment) touches an island.

    #5337
    jetmoto-1996
    Participant
      Sea creatures can’t be rammed, pinned, or boarded. Nor can they ram, load treasure, tow, or be assigned crew. Sea creatures can be given only move and shoot actions.

    The Sea Monster keyword says this though,

    Sea Monster:
    A ship with this keyword printed on its deckplate card is a sea creature.
    At the beginning of your turn, decide if the sea monster is submerged or on the surface. If submerged, a
    sea monster can only move; it cannot shoot or be shot at, and it cannot dock or touch other ships.
    If a sea monster is on the surface, it may move or shoot like a normal ship. It may ram opposing ships (the
    rammed ship becomes pinned instead of the sea monster) and it may board. After winning a boarding action the sea
    monster may eliminate a crew or steal a treasure (if cargo space permits), but it cannot capture crew and if it takes a
    unique treasure that treasure is eliminated.

    This is directly contradictory to the complete game rules as the Keyword states that sea monsters CAN ram while the complete game rules say that they cannot ram.

    #5354
    Ben
    Keymaster

    This is directly contradictory to the complete game rules as the Keyword states that sea monsters CAN ram while the complete game rules say that they cannot ram.

    Absolutely.  Wizkids’ handling of the sea creature rules vs. creature “type” keywords (Titan, Sea Dragon, etc) was a colossal mistake.  The sea creature rules are the base rules that apply to all the different creature types.  The sea creature keywords (like Sea Monster) were written specifically for each type, which is where you get exceptions.  Honestly it’s a disaster.

    #5384
    jetmoto-1996
    Participant

    Absolutely.  Wizkids’ handling of the sea creature rules vs. creature “type” keywords (Titan, Sea Dragon, etc) was a colossal mistake.  The sea creature rules are the base rules that apply to all the different creature types.  The sea creature keywords (like Sea Monster) were written specifically for each type, which is where you get exceptions.  Honestly it’s a disaster.

    Well i’m glad its not just me who thinks so.  So it would be safe to say that the Sea Monster keyword over rules the sea creature “type” then?  Because without ramming the few decent sea monsters are significantly worse IMO.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by jetmoto-1996.
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