Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #13355
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The Rats UT says it cannot be unloaded from a ship. Does this mean that it cannot be transferred to another ship?

    Correct.  Transfers between ships involve unloading the thing from one ship and loading it onto another, so any abilities that refer to one or the other will apply.

    #13356
    Ben
    Keymaster

    It’s probably not even remotely worth the effort/cost required to do it, but it is possible.

    And then you get the Eye of Maru aboard (from RtSS) for a 16L freak cannon?  XD

    #13357
    Woelf
    Moderator

    And then you get the Eye of Maru aboard (from RtSS) for a 16L freak cannon?  XD

    Yep  : )

    At that point, it’s pretty much “roll a 6 to remove one mast from any opposing ship in play”.

    #13359
    Ben
    Keymaster

    From my game with Captain Randy and Curren in Las Vegas today:

    Can you target a ship that cannot be shot at while docked with Neptune’s Trident?

    Can you finish taking treasures from an island that the Whirlpool UT is found on?

    Can turtles be moved under the hull of a 10 master to essentially stop it when it has to move and immediately hits a turtle?

    #13360
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Can you target a ship that cannot be shot at while docked with Neptune’s Trident?

    The Trident targets an area, not the ship directly, so that defensive ability will not provide any protection against it.

    Can you finish taking treasures from an island that the Whirlpool UT is found on?

    You have to take and apply any other face-up UTs that were on the island, but then your ship gets sent away before you can take any facedown UTs or standard treasure.  The “Useful Lists” section at the very end of the PC goes into much more detail on the precise timing.

    Can turtles be moved under the hull of a 10 master to essentially stop it when it has to move and immediately hits a turtle?

    Nothing can be moved “under” or inside another object, even if the physical pieces would fit there, unless ability/rules text specifically allows it.     Lost is the only exception that comes to mind.

    The best you could do in that scenario is park the turtles tightly against the hull so the ship can’t move or rotate in any way without hitting one.

    #13369
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    How many ships can you board with the S-Board ability on the same turn? Can you even use that ability to board more than one ship in a move action?

    Also, the Brave Selkirk. Can it use it’s ability while submerged?

    #13390
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Abilities that steal or trade treasure by touching another ship, can those abilities be used by submerged submarines?

    For example, Nikos Cheilos on his linked Fathom Submarine. Would he be able to take treasures from a ship while the Fathom is submerged?

    #13396
    Woelf
    Moderator

    How many ships can you board with the S-Board ability on the same turn? Can you even use that ability to board more than one ship in a move action?

    You can only use it to board a single ship with each move action, but if you gain an additional move action, you can use it again against the same target or a completely different one.

     

    Also, the Brave Selkirk. Can it use it’s ability while submerged?

    Yes.  Just like the S-Boarder ability, it can be used while submerged (or against something submerged) unless specifically prevented by some other ability.

     

    Abilities that steal or trade treasure by touching another ship, can those abilities be used by submerged submarines?

    For example, Nikos Cheilos on his linked Fathom Submarine. Would he be able to take treasures from a ship while the Fathom is submerged?

    Submerged ships cannot touch other ships, so Chelios will have to be on the surface to use his ability.

    The submerged ramming ability is an exception to the no touching part, but allows only for the ramming, not the use of any other abilities.

    #13587
    Ben
    Keymaster

    -In certain rare situations it is possible for a ship to occupy the exact same position as an iceberg. When this occurs, the ship loses one mast as normal. If the ship moves first it must move entirely off of the iceberg if possible; if the iceberg moves first, the ship remains in place and does not move with the iceberg. In either case, the ship will not take additional damage from that iceberg until they leave contact completely and then move back into contact.

    What “rare situations” other than the Lost UT could make this occur?

    #13588
    Ben
    Keymaster

    From this post last year:   (emphasis added in both quotes)

    If you had an extra/second action available you could use that to attempt to get unstuck on the same turn you were tangled, or you could use your normal first action to make the attempt and then use the extra/second action to do whatever you want with it.

    That makes perfect sense to me, and seems to be the way it should work.

    If a game piece is tangled, you can use its action for the turn to try to free it. Roll a d6 and add the current number of masts or segments on the tangled game piece to the result. If the result is morethan 6, the game piece is untangled. Orient it in any direction, facing away from the Sargasso Sea and touching any edge of the Sargasso Sea. It can be given a move action to move normally next turn.

    This means if you free your ship with your first action, you can’t use a second action to move away.  Which I think proves how horribly written the sargasso sea rules are.

    #13595
    Woelf
    Moderator

    -In certain rare situations it is possible for a ship to occupy the exact same position as an iceberg. When this occurs, the ship loses one mast as normal. If the ship moves first it must move entirely off of the iceberg if possible; if the iceberg moves first, the ship remains in place and does not move with the iceberg. In either case, the ship will not take additional damage from that iceberg until they leave contact completely and then move back into contact.

    What “rare situations” other than the Lost UT could make this occur?

    Lost was the primary one.   I feel like there was some other weird situation where it could occur too, but it’s not coming to mind.

    With a lot of entries like that, I tried to keep it just open-ended enough that it could still be applied if something else came along later and caused a similar situation.   Being too specific about everything made upkeep much more of a chore and made it much more likely for things to get missed as more stuff got added to the game over time.

    #13596
    Woelf
    Moderator

    From this post last year:   (emphasis added in both quotes)

    If you had an extra/second action available you could use that to attempt to get unstuck on the same turn you were tangled, or you could use your normal first action to make the attempt and then use the extra/second action to do whatever you want with it.

    That makes perfect sense to me, and seems to be the way it should work.

    If a game piece is tangled, you can use its action for the turn to try to free it. Roll a d6 and add the current number of masts or segments on the tangled game piece to the result. If the result is morethan 6, the game piece is untangled. Orient it in any direction, facing away from the Sargasso Sea and touching any edge of the Sargasso Sea. It can be given a move action to move normally next turn.

    This means if you free your ship with your first action, you can’t use a second action to move away.  Which I think proves how horribly written the sargasso sea rules are.

     

    That’s a very good example of bad wording.   The way it’s written if you used your first action to get untangled, you could not use your extra action to take a move action, but you could still use that action for something else.

     

    This also points back to how the rules frequently don’t clearly account for extra actions, or in some cases even acknowledge their existence.   Effects like this really should refer to the next action rather than the next turn, unless there’s a specific reason to force it to wait (game balance, presumably).

    #13606
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Just like the S-Boarder ability, it can be used while submerged (or against something submerged) unless specifically prevented by some other ability.

    As a follow-up, what’s the timing on the Selkirk’s ability? The card says “once per turn”. Could it be used like a canceller, which is also a “once per turn”?

    #13611
    Woelf
    Moderator

    As a follow-up, what’s the timing on the Selkirk’s ability? The card says “once per turn”. Could it be used like a canceller, which is also a “once per turn”?

    It has no specific timing, so you can use it before, after, or between actions, or even between movement segments, similar to a canceler.

    #13641
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    What would happen if Jail!, Celestine’s Charts, and Nemo’s Plans wound up on the same ship? Would the Plans and Jail! basically keep crew from being assigned to that ship? Would the Charts stay on the ship, or be moved as per its own ability text?

    #13643
    Woelf
    Moderator

    What would happen if Jail!, Celestine’s Charts, and Nemo’s Plans wound up on the same ship? Would the Plans and Jail! basically keep crew from being assigned to that ship? Would the Charts stay on the ship, or be moved as per its own ability text?

    Celestine’s Charts and Nemo’s Plans don’t interact in any meaningful way, because CC moves to an island instead of removing itself from the game.   It’s reusable entirely on its own, and doesn’t trigger any part of NP.

     

    The interaction between Nemo’s Plans and Jail! becomes optional after the initial crew get sent away.      Nemo’s Plans says “…can be reused…” not “…must be reused…”, and Jail! isn’t a continually-functioning effect, so while you do keep Jail! on the ship, you don’t need to apply the effect again on other crew that board the ship later unless you want to immediately send them home.

    #13865
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I assume Homing Beacon cannot be used with a ghostly ship because it cannot dock?

    #13866
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Correct.  If your ship can’t dock, you can’t use things that would cause it to dock.

    #14000
    BenSten
    Participant

    Hi everyone I’ve recently gotten back into Pirates CSG and I’ve got a handful of random questions:

    • Am I correct that sea creatures can only move OR shoot? Seems to be really limiting in how effective they can be. If that’s the case, has anyone tried house-ruling that they can always move AND shoot?
    • Native canoes. I’m probably just missing something, but it seems a bit overpowered that they start on an island and can grab gold and run home. Am I missing something or is that how they work?
    • Ramming seems to make 1-mast ships super vulnerable given it’s basically an auto-kill. It also seems to create a weird game of chicken when you get a 1-master vs. another 1-master. Again, mostly looking to make sure I’m not missing anything 🙂
    • I’m wondering if there are any commonly-accepted house rules that help the game be more fun / balanced?

    Thanks!

    -Ben

    #14001
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    #1 Correct, Sea Creatures can only move or shoot. There have been a few people who have house-ruled the captain ability built into some.

    #2 Native canoes begin the game docked at a wild island, but CANNOT be given an explore action on the first turn. Furthermore, Canoes must all be given the same action. If one of them moves, then the others can only move.

    #3 One mast ships are indeed vulnerable to ramming, however I would consider it far from an auto-kill since you must roll higher than the number of masts remaining on a ship to successfully ram a ship, making it possible to fail a ram roll against a one mast ship if you roll a 1.

    #14012
    BenSten
    Participant

    Thanks for the quick reply 🙂

    One other question I’ve been having. I’ve noticed that some masts only have a die printed on one side, and have assumed that was done on purpose and that shots can only be made from one side of the mast. This would mean 180 degrees is the max for that mast’s shot (assuming no other masts are in the way). Is that correct?

    #14013
    Ben
    Keymaster

    One other question I’ve been having. I’ve noticed that some masts only have a die printed on one side, and have assumed that was done on purpose and that shots can only be made from one side of the mast. This would mean 180 degrees is the max for that mast’s shot (assuming no other masts are in the way). Is that correct?

    No, it would still be able to fire from both sides.  The Code has some guidance on misprints on the first page.  What ship is that on?

    #14014
    BenSten
    Participant

    I’m thinking maybe I didn’t do a good job at explaining my question as a ton of my ships only have a die on one side of a mast. I found a random pic on the internet showing the three middle masts that don’t have a die on the front side. So in this case could those masts not shoot forward?Ship with one-sided cannon?

    #14015
    BenSten
    Participant

    One other unrelated question that I can’t find figure out from the rules. I know that “sea monster” overrides “sea creature”. Sea creatures cannot ram or be rammed, board or be boarded. In contrast, sea monsters state that they can ram other ships. That said, sea monster rules do not explicitly state that a sea monster can be rammed/boarded; this makes me believe it defaults back to the sea creature rules that it cannot be rammed/boarded.

    Thoughts?

    #14016
    Ben
    Keymaster

    So in this case could those masts not shoot forward?

    They can. I think it was just an oversight when designing how the ships would look.  My bad, I was only thinking about schooners.

    this makes me believe it defaults back to the sea creature rules that it cannot be rammed/boarded.

    Correct!

    #14017
    Matt Lovell
    Participant

    Figure I’d respond here too since someone asked in Discord rules.

    I would think the assumption that a ‘Sea Monster’ defaults to sea creature rules if not stated would be incorrect. The ‘Sea Monster’ keyword says if the monster is surfaced, it acts as ship with the listed modifications (pin/board mods). It should be following the ship rules, not sea creature rules. That would mean cards like Empress (crew) and Ophidious continue making sense.

    #14021
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I would think the assumption that a ‘Sea Monster’ defaults to sea creature rules if not stated would be incorrect. The ‘Sea Monster’ keyword says if the monster is surfaced, it acts as ship with the listed modifications (pin/board mods). It should be following the ship rules, not sea creature rules. That would mean cards like Empress (crew) and Ophidious continue making sense.

    The Sea Monster/Dragon/etc. keywords apply on top of the sea creature rules, and the sea creature rules apply on top of the standard ship rules.

    When something conflicts between, the higher layer overrides the lower layer(s), but anything that isn’t specifically called out in a higher layer still applies normally from the lower ones.

    Using the example above, the while the Sea Monster keyword says they can ram, it doesn’t say they can be rammed, so that restriction/protection from sea creature remains in effect.

    #14022
    Woelf
    Moderator

             So in this case could those masts not shoot forward?

    They can. I think it was just an oversight when designing how the ships would look.  My bad, I was only thinking about schooners.

    Yep, that’s just an artwork thing, to make them look prettier or something.

    Any single mast by itself always has a 360° firing arc, regardless of which side the die is or isn’t printed on.

    A mast also never blocks its own line of sight no matter how it’s shaped, so you only need to worry about other masts nearby when drawing lines of fire.

    #14023
    Captain Vendari
    Participant

    Barnacle and Grand Barnacle need to be added to the No Duplicates list as the same ship.

     

    https://pirates.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Barnacle

    #14027
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Barnacle and Grand Barnacle need to be added to the No Duplicates list as the same ship.

    https://pirates.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Barnacle

    I never realized there was so much extra backstory for those ships!

    Added to the list under “Different Name, Same Ship“.

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