Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #10888
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    @Woelf & @Ben,

    I was looking at the no-duplicates list and saw that Crimson Angel was missing. Her spelling doesn’t change from CC up to Rise of the Fiends, and she’s got 4 different versions. I assume she would fall into the same name, same person category. Just a heads up.

    #10889
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Question about specialist crew (fire, stink, etc.). When you decide to use one during a shoot action, would they be able to use any cannon bonuses a ship has to offer? For example, a firepot specialist on the same ship as Bruce Grey. Would the specialist be able to use the +1 to cannon rolls that Grey provides to augment their shot?

    I’ve always treated the specialist crew as functioning similar to musketeers, in that you can’t apply cannon bonuses to their shots, or increase their range.

    #10890
    Woelf
    Moderator

    All versions of Crimson Angel would fall under the “Same Name, Same Spelling, Same Person” category. That section of the list is far from complete, but it’s mostly a non-issue because there aren’t any exceptions to that rule, aside from the ones in the lists immediately below.

    If you or someone else wanted to put together the rest of the list using a format similar to the names already listed, I’d be happy to add it to that post in the beginning of this thread.

    Question about specialist crew (fire, stink, etc.). When you decide to use one during a shoot action, would they be able to use any cannon bonuses a ship has to offer? For example, a firepot specialist on the same ship as Bruce Grey. Would the specialist be able to use the +1 to cannon rolls that Grey provides to augment their shot?

    I’ve always treated the specialist crew as functioning similar to musketeers, in that you can’t apply cannon bonuses to their shots, or increase their range.

    Unless there’s something in the wording of the Specialist or the cannon bonus that forbids or prevents the specific combination from working, they can be used together.

    Sometimes the combos don’t work for reasons that are indirect, or more subtle, like if you tried to combine a FPS with the “eliminates two masts with one hit” ability. That combo doesn’t work because the FPS replaces masts instead of eliminating them, so you’d have to choose one ability or the other.

    #10903
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Apologies if I’ve already asked this before.  Embarrassed to admit I’ve never fully understood how it works.

    Sargasso sea timing:

    If the Sargasso Sea’s rating is more than the number of masts or segments, the game piece is tangled in the weeds and might not be able to move.

    If a game piece is tangled, you can use its action for the turn to try to free it. Roll a d6 and add the current number of masts or segments on the tangled game piece to the result. If the result is more than 6, the game piece is untangled. Orient it in any direction, facing away from the Sargasso Sea and touching any edge of the Sargasso Sea. It can be given a move action to move normally next turn.

    Can the “action for the turn” be the same action that the ship used to get tangled in the first place?  For example, can a ship get stuck and then free itself in the same turn?

    #10912
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Apologies if I’ve already asked this before. Embarrassed to admit I’ve never fully understood how it works.

    Sargasso sea timing:

    If the Sargasso Sea’s rating is more than the number of masts or segments, the game piece is tangled in the weeds and might not be able to move.

    If a game piece is tangled, you can use its action for the turn to try to free it. Roll a d6 and add the current number of masts or segments on the tangled game piece to the result. If the result is more than 6, the game piece is untangled. Orient it in any direction, facing away from the Sargasso Sea and touching any edge of the Sargasso Sea. It can be given a move action to move normally next turn.

    Can the “action for the turn” be the same action that the ship used to get tangled in the first place? For example, can a ship get stuck and then free itself in the same turn?

    The attempt requires a full action, similar to the handful of abilities and other effects that use a ship’s “action for the turn”, so you can’t make the attempt at the end of the action that got you stuck.

    If you had an extra/second action available you could use that to attempt to get unstuck on the same turn you were tangled, or you could use your normal first action to make the attempt and then use the extra/second action to do whatever you want with it.

    #10924
    Ben
    Keymaster

    @Woelf: Glad I’ve been playing it right all this time then! 🙂

    If an Eternal ship’s oarsman is cancelled, I assume you can roll to scuttle the ship that turn? If rolled successfully, would the ship be placed at the HI via Eternal even on the turn after when the oarsman became “active” again?

    I assume Necklace of the Sky is placed face down when unloaded at a wild island? (rather than face up)

    Do you have to unload Knights of Malta Banner when docking at your own home island whether it is worth any gold or not? (I think I already asked this after that epic 4×100 game from 2015, but I forget the answer and MT is gone)

    If you’re exploring an enemy derelict, can you just take crew off the ship and put them on your own?

    I’m thinking about using your Streamlined Hull equipment in CG4, but we have a house rule there that does away with ram damage.  Do you think that upping the cost to 5 would be an acceptable “replacement drawback”? (if that seems too high, it’s partially because I’m trying to account for the sheer spending power that is generally involved in campaign games – even 5 might not be enough in the long run)  Now that I’m seeing it for the first (or second) time, my Copper Sheathing equipment idea is very similar to it.

    (not my picture of course, just used from Riz for reference here)

    Streamlined Hull - equipment by Woelf

    #10971
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If an Eternal ship’s oarsman is cancelled, I assume you can roll to scuttle the ship that turn? If rolled successfully, would the ship be placed at the HI via Eternal even on the turn after when the oarsman became “active” again?

    The Oarsman only needs to be cancelled while you make the attempt, so the ship counts as “derelict”. Once the scuttle has been triggered successfully, the Oarsman’s ability won’t prevent the ship from going down on your next turn.

    I assume Necklace of the Sky is placed face down when unloaded at a wild island? (rather than face up)

    It remains face up when placed on the island, but then flips face down when loaded by an opposing ship.

    Do you have to unload Knights of Malta Banner when docking at your own home island whether it is worth any gold or not? (I think I already asked this after that epic 4×100 game from 2015, but I forget the answer and MT is gone)

    Yes, it must be unloaded whether it produces a value or not. (Don’t dock that ship unless you’re done with the Banner.)

    If you’re exploring an enemy derelict, can you just take crew off the ship and put them on your own?

    You can grab whatever cargo you can carry. (You can also dump unwanted stuff from your own ship onto the derelict, as long as it can be legally unloaded.)

    I’m thinking about using your Streamlined Hull equipment in CG4, but we have a house rule there that does away with ram damage. Do you think that upping the cost to 5 would be an acceptable “replacement drawback”? (if that seems too high, it’s partially because I’m trying to account for the sheer spending power that is generally involved in campaign games – even 5 might not be enough in the long run) Now that I’m seeing it for the first (or second) time, my Copper Sheathing equipment idea is very similar to it.

    It only helps your slowest ships, and they gain slightly less than what a helmsman would provide, so I wouldn’t go higher than 3.

    I think that ramming part was more thematic than a true balancing effect anyway, but without that it still does have the benefit of taking up no space and being stackable with an actual Helmsman, so keeping it at 2 would be a little low.

    #10995
    Ben
    Keymaster

    With Runes of Thor/Loki on a ship with Nemo’s Plans, can those be used on each player’s/faction’s turn, or only once per round?

    #11000
    Woelf
    Moderator

    With Runes of Thor/Loki on a ship with Nemo’s Plans, can those be used on each player’s/faction’s turn, or only once per round?

    Things that aren’t tied to a specific action can be used once during each of your own turns.

    Because Thor/Loki can be used out of turn, that extends to once for each of your own turns, so effectively it’s once per round.

    #11021
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Regarding Ransom; this from the Code:

    -Friendly abilities (cancellers, doctors, etc.) cannot affect a crew with this keyword.

    What part of the original keyword would indicate that?  I realize it’s a big headache if you cancel Ransom after you’ve captured the Ransom crew, but I don’t see how you would know you couldn’t without specifically looking in the Code.

    #11024
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Regarding Ransom; this from the Code:

    -Friendly abilities (cancellers, doctors, etc.) cannot affect a crew with this keyword.

    What part of the original keyword would indicate that?  I realize it’s a big headache if you cancel Ransom after you’ve captured the Ransom crew, but I don’t see how you would know you couldn’t without specifically looking in the Code.

    It never has been specified in the keyword anywhere, because it’s one of the countless rulings made after the fact to handle weird edge cases that the average player will rarely, if ever, encounter.

    If you don’t know about that part of the Code (or intentionally ignore it), it’ll still be playable, but it becomes super easy to break Ransom. You could get the +5 points, then on your very first turn cancel and sac the crew to remove any risk of it falling into enemy hands.

    #11025
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    When a ship explores an island, it leaves behind a marker to show that it is explored. Once explored a ship can dock and then load treasure/cargo as a free action.

    Suppose two friendly ships are docked at the same island. One of them explores it, but does not load any treasure, just leaving an explore marker. Now that the island is explored, the other ship loads the treasure/cargo from the island as a free action, and uses her main action to begin moving back to the home island. Is this correct, or does the second ship also need to explore/ use a general action to load the treasure/cargo?

     

    Also, suppose there are ships docked at their home island. Ship A has a UT that the controller feels would be better off on Ship B. The UT is transferable, and the controller moves it to the desired ship, and also sends a crew from Ship A to Ship C. Can any of these ships involved now be given actions? The code seems to indicate that Ship A at least cannot, since she was given an explore action to move the cargo around.

    “The Code” under Exploring

    Transferring cargo directly between two friendly ships always requires an explore action, unless an ability specifically allows otherwise. Only one of the ships must be given the explore action to allow a two way transfer.

     

    Additionally, how would this:

    “The Code” under Exploring

    If treasure is transferred to a ship that is already docked at its home island, it does not automatically unload.  That ship must move away from the island and re-dock or it must be given an explore action targeting the home island, at which point all treasure worth gold is immediately unloaded.

    Relate to the ability of 058 Captain Jack Sparrow? Would the ship he sends a treasure to be able simply explore the home island to unload the treasure he sent to it?

    #11027
    Woelf
    Moderator

    When a ship explores an island, it leaves behind a marker to show that it is explored. Once explored a ship can dock and then load treasure/cargo as a free action.

    Suppose two friendly ships are docked at the same island. One of them explores it, but does not load any treasure, just leaving an explore marker. Now that the island is explored, the other ship loads the treasure/cargo from the island as a free action, and uses her main action to begin moving back to the home island. Is this correct, or does the second ship also need to explore/ use a general action to load the treasure/cargo?

    The marker only gives you a free explore if it’s already on the island when you dock. If your ship was already there when it got placed, you gain no benefit (unless you leave and come back later).

    Also, suppose there are ships docked at their home island. Ship A has a UT that the controller feels would be better off on Ship B. The UT is transferable, and the controller moves it to the desired ship, and also sends a crew from Ship A to Ship C. Can any of these ships involved now be given actions? The code seems to indicate that Ship A at least cannot, since she was given an explore action to move the cargo around.

    Crew may be transferred freely on or off ships while docked at any island (home or otherwise), but that doesn’t extend to other cargo.

    Transferring a UT or other cargo from one ship to another requires them to be in direct contact with each other, and then one of them has to be given an explore action. (The other can still do some other action, if it hasn’t already.)

    When two ships are docked at a non-home island, to get non-crew cargo from one to the other requires both to use Explore actions. The first unloads it to the island, the second loads it from the island. You can’t pass cargo across the island from one ship to another with a single action.

    … the ability of 058 Captain Jack Sparrow? Would the ship he sends a treasure to be able simply explore the home island to unload the treasure he sent to it?

    The ship that received the treasure would have to be given its own explore action targeting your home island to unload, or it has to undock and then return later to unload automatically.

    #11055
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Question about Native Canoes; since they have no masts, and cannot be assigned crew,  if they went through a whirlpool and rolled badly, you’d HAVE to eliminate a treasure that they were carrying, yes?

    #11069
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Question about Native Canoes; since they have no masts, and cannot be assigned crew, if they went through a whirlpool and rolled badly, you’d HAVE to eliminate a treasure that they were carrying, yes?

    Correct. You have to lose something if you can, and the canoes give you no other options.

    #11077
    Ben
    Keymaster

    “Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move an enemy ship L in any direction.”

    Pretty sure I asked this in regards to VASSAL Campaign Game 1 back in 2016, but not seeing the answer in the Code.  Can you use SAT/EA abilities to use the above ability twice in one turn?

    #11089
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Two questions, kind of

    Let’s say that someone had a field day with Captain Nemo, captured a bunch of crew. The ship Nemo is on gets captured, ala the Harbinger from Spanish Main. Nemo’s ship had the SAC ability on it. The person who captured Nemo’s ship then builds the Devil’s Maw fort. Can the person who captured Nemo use the SAC ability on his ship and the Devil’s Maw to get their captured crew back; or would this situation fall under this part of the code regarding the Devil’s Maw:

    In addition, that ability cannot be used intentionally with this fort to give those crew the Ghost Ship keyword instead of gaining an extra action

     

    What happens to Runes of Odin if Pirata Codex/Kharmic idol is revealed, and the Runes have already been played. The Code seems to indicate that the UT token would be removed, but would it’s effect still apply to the iceberg?

    #11093
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Another weird situation.

    A ship finds Cross of Coronado and Nemo’s Plans. An opposing ship targets that ship with a Broadsides Attack. Can the Cross of Coronado be used to ignore the hits from the Broadsides Attack, or would BA cut through any protection that the UT would provide?

    #11094
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Apologies for another post, but things keep coming up.

    The Gem of Hades/Red Skull changes the ship and crew that find it to Cursed, the code says that crew that are placed on the ship after become cursed, but revert back to their original nationality if they are removed from the ship. If the treasure is removed from the ship in question, would the ship revert back to it’s original nationality as well?

    Also (and apologies if this has been asked before), can the ability “Once per turn if this ship is touching another ship, reveal all face-down treasure aboard the other ship.  This ship can take as much unique treasure from the other ship as she can carry, even those that otherwise can’t be removed.” be used to take a Unique Treasure that is already face-up? I’m assuming it can, since I have recollections of doing this in previous games, but the wording of the ability is leading me to believe that only UT’s that are revealed by the ability can be taken, not UT’s that are already face-up on the ship that has been targeted.

    Finally,

    “The Pirate Code, Unique Treasures section”

    ….and may be transferred by abilities and effects that steal, take, or trade treasure, unless an ability specifically prevents them from being unloaded or removed from a ship.

    I take it to mean that the abilities “Once per turn this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship she touches.” and “If this ship wins a boarding action, she may take as much treasure from the other ship as she can carry.” would be able to remove/take a Unique Treasure (unless it can’t be removed) whether it was face-down or not?

    #11100
    Woelf
    Moderator

    “Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move an enemy ship L in any direction.”

    Pretty sure I asked this in regards to VASSAL Campaign Game 1 back in 2016, but not seeing the answer in the Code. Can you use SAT/EA abilities to use the above ability twice in one turn?

    The SAT ability only really cares that the first action you gave the ship was a move action, then it gives you a second move action. EA gives you the second action regardless of what the first was.

    In either case, what you do within each move action is entirely up to you, and has no direct bearing on what you can or cannot do with additional ones.

    (It’s essentially the same as using a Captain/Explorer/etc. with just one action or the other.)

    #11101
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Let’s say that someone had a field day with Captain Nemo, captured a bunch of crew. The ship Nemo is on gets captured, ala the Harbinger from Spanish Main. Nemo’s ship had the SAC ability on it. The person who captured Nemo’s ship then builds the Devil’s Maw fort. Can the person who captured Nemo use the SAC ability on his ship and the Devil’s Maw to get their captured crew back; or would this situation fall under this part of the code regarding the Devil’s Maw:

    In addition, that ability cannot be used intentionally with this fort to give those crew the Ghost Ship keyword instead of gaining an extra action

    The player already got their crew back when they captured Nemo and his ship, but the crew are stuck there unless it sinks.

    That rule for Devil’s Maw still applies, and in fact the “In addition…” part you quoted is specifically to address situations like this. You can’t purposely eliminate crew specifically just to send them to the fort, even knowing that you won’t get an extra from it.

    If some of those captured crew are eliminated by other (hostile) means, then they could come back at the fort, and would be no longer restricted by Nemo.

    What happens to Runes of Odin if Pirata Codex/Kharmic idol is revealed, and the Runes have already been played. The Code seems to indicate that the UT token would be removed, but would it’s effect still apply to the iceberg?

    When the token gets removed, so does the extra effect. The iceberg itself remains in play, but functions like a standard one for the rest of the game.

    Another weird situation.

    A ship finds Cross of Coronado and Nemo’s Plans. An opposing ship targets that ship with a Broadsides Attack. Can the Cross of Coronado be used to ignore the hits from the Broadsides Attack, or would BA cut through any protection that the UT would provide?

    The Cross doesn’t prevent the shot from being made, and only triggers when a mast would be eliminated. By that point, BA’s ability prevention is already active, so the Cross’s ability would be blocked.

    #11102
    Woelf
    Moderator

    (Splitting up the replies a bit so it isn’t just one big wall of text.)

    Apologies for another post, but things keep coming up.

    No problem at all! Ask as much as you want!

    The Gem of Hades/Red Skull changes the ship and crew that find it to Cursed, the code says that crew that are placed on the ship after become cursed, but revert back to their original nationality if they are removed from the ship. If the treasure is removed from the ship in question, would the ship revert back to it’s original nationality as well?

    The Gem/Skull effect only applies while it’s on the ship, so if it gets removed somehow, the effect ends immediately.

    Also (and apologies if this has been asked before), can the ability “Once per turn if this ship is touching another ship, reveal all face-down treasure aboard the other ship. This ship can take as much unique treasure from the other ship as she can carry, even those that otherwise can’t be removed.” be used to take a Unique Treasure that is already face-up? I’m assuming it can, since I have recollections of doing this in previous games, but the wording of the ability is leading me to believe that only UT’s that are revealed by the ability can be taken, not UT’s that are already face-up on the ship that has been targeted.

    Even though they’re linked together, and the “once per turn” part applies to both, they can almost be treated as two completely separate abilities.

    The first part that reveals treasures doesn’t care if there are UTs on the ship or not, and the second part grabs UTs regardless of when or how they were revealed.

    Finally,

    “The Pirate Code, Unique Treasures section”

    ….and may be transferred by abilities and effects that steal, take, or trade treasure, unless an ability specifically prevents them from being unloaded or removed from a ship.

    I take it to mean that the abilities “Once per turn this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship she touches.” and “If this ship wins a boarding action, she may take as much treasure from the other ship as she can carry.” would be able to remove/take a Unique Treasure (unless it can’t be removed) whether it was face-down or not?

    Correct, UTs that aren’t prevented from transferring can be taken (or given) in boarding actions and by abilities that steal treasure.

    #11104
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Thanks woelf, a bunch of this is relevant to CoEC.

    Another odd one, and less of a question, more help with clarification.

    “On a 6 cancel any one ability in play until the beginning of your next turn.”

    This is from a custom UT of mine. The way it is worded, could it be used to cancel the ability of a UT, if it was face-up?

    #11105
    Woelf
    Moderator

    “On a 6 cancel any one ability in play until the beginning of your next turn.”

    This is from a custom UT of mine. The way it is worded, could it be used to cancel the ability of a UT, if it was face-up?

    The way it’s worded, yes, it would work against other UTs.

    What’s the timing on the use of that ability? When revealed, once per turn, beginning of your own turn?

    #11106
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Thanks. I may specify and retcon this one to be ships and crew only

     

    The full UT ability, from the Customs database:

    Once at the beginning of each of your turns roll a d6. On a 1-3 all of your ships get +1 to their cannon and boarding rolls against all targets. On a 4-5 one ship in you fleet may be given an extra action. On a 6 cancel any one ability in play until the beginning of your next turn.

    So you roll for it at the beginning of each of your turns.

    #11111
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The full UT ability, from the Customs database:

    Once at the beginning of each of your turns roll a d6. On a 1-3 all of your ships get +1 to their cannon and boarding rolls against all targets. On a 4-5 one ship in you fleet may be given an extra action. On a 6 cancel any one ability in play until the beginning of your next turn.

    So you roll for it at the beginning of each of your turns.

    That sounds crazy powerful even for a UT, especially when it could be pulled out of Pandora’s Box or farmed from a Mysterious Island.

    You might want to consider limiting the cannon and extra action effects to just the ship carrying it, or at least to a single ship in your fleet.

    #11112
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    I probably will do something like that, it’s been used in CoEC. A faction got the six ability and used it to cancel out Nemo’s Plans.

    #11142
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Oh boy… I’m probably missing something, but I don’t see anything in the rules or Code that prevents you from taking enemy crew (or equipment) from their home island when you dock with a home island raider….

    #11155
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Oh boy… I’m probably missing something, but I don’t see anything in the rules or Code that prevents you from taking enemy crew (or equipment) from their home island when you dock with a home island raider….

    I don’t think it’s explicitly stated anywhere, but it is very strongly implied by the combinations of several other rules. It probably should be stated somewhere, though. The “Dock” section of the PC would probably be the best place for it.

    For more official purposes: The HI-Raider ability allows you to dock at the opposing home island to take ONLY what the ability specifically allows, and nothing else.

    #11189
    Lukas
    Participant

    crazy Oo

    is this crew not op then, cause it f*cks up every over Point builded ships also mixed nation ships?

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