October 11, 2021 at 11:06 AM #14030Luke MenzieParticipant
So given that Sea Monsters and Titans cannot be rammed, what is the point of the ability text of Empress (crew) and Hanc*ck (ship)? “If this ship wins a ram roll against a sea monster or titan, remove two segments instead of one.” I just can’t imagine a completely useless ability, a niche one sure, but not an invalid one.
I had to censor the ship name because the profanity detector went off. *=oOctober 11, 2021 at 7:52 PM #14031
So given that Sea Monsters and Titans cannot be rammed, what is the point of the ability text of Empress (crew) and Hanc0ck (ship)? “If this ship wins a ram roll against a sea monster or titan, remove two segments instead of one.” I just can’t imagine a completely useless ability, a niche one sure, but not an invalid one.
That ability is just plain broken. I think a ruling/errata had been made for it once, to make it playable, but I can’t recall what it was. Most likely, it was that the ability could override the sea creature rule and did allow you to ram Sea Monsters and Titans (but still not Sea Dragons or Krakens/Octos).October 23, 2021 at 12:30 PM #14034
Question from the Discord.
Can Sea Dragons be used to build a fort? Not as the ship that explores, but as the friendly ship docked at a previously explored island.
“Sea Dragon Keyword”
A sea dragon has a base move of D, meaning that it has unlimited movement. It ignores all terrain, islands, and ships when moving, but cannot end any movement overlapping a ship.
“Pirate Code, Sea Creatures”
Any game piece with the Sea Dragon, Sea Monster, Titan, Kraken, or Octopus keyword printed on its deckplate card is considered a sea creature, even if the effect of that keyword has been cancelled.
A sea creature is docked if any part of it (including a segment) touches an island.
“Pirate Code, Sea Dragon”
A sea dragon is considered docked if it touches any part of an island.
It seems like they could be used to build a fort, is there something we’re overlooking that would prevent them from being able to do this?October 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM #14035
Sea Dragons technically count as ships, so as long as one is touching a wild island it’s considered docked, and that’s enough to build a fort there (assuming you also meet the other standard requirements like gold, nationality, etc.).
It’s funny to think about what might be happening thematically, but as far as the rules are concerned, it is legal.November 5, 2021 at 2:19 PM #14044
“Named crew have only the abilities printed on their cards. They do not gain any other abilities based upon their name, title, or flavor text. However, named crew may still be used to trigger other abilities that refer to a specific name or title.”
Does this mean that Capitaine Chevalle for example, would satisfy the condition for the Black Pearl (025)? I’ve always interpreted those abilities as needing a crew with the captain ability to trigger, is that not the case?
Also Odin’s Revenge seems to be missing from the Code. Would revealing Odin’s Revenge cause a derelict ship to sink?November 7, 2021 at 1:40 PM #14045
That sort of situation is exactly what that entry is meant to cover. He doesn’t have the move & shoot ability, but he does still count as a “captain” for abilities that refer to one.
Also Odin’s Revenge seems to be missing from the Code. Would revealing Odin’s Revenge cause a derelict ship to sink?
Odin’s Revenge only removes masts, so a derelict ship would be unaffected.November 30, 2021 at 3:10 AM #14063
If abilities that have the same trigger but are different, what happens?
For example, lets say that Bonny Peel is on the Fool’s Hope and the ship wins a boarding party. Which ability may be used?December 1, 2021 at 10:51 AM #14064
As long as their end effects are different, you can use them together.
With that particular combination, Bonny’s ability can grab one crew, AND you can pick two options from the ship’s ability. Bonny gets to choose the order they’re applied (generally you’d probably want to use hers first, but there might be a situation where the opposite is preferred).December 20, 2021 at 1:40 PM #14165
Q2) Davy Jones (DJC) copies the Fog-Hopping ability and moved into a fog. Since his ability is reset on the next turn, can the ability be recopied and ‘hop’ out of another fog with a move action? Does the ability need to be recopied or is it carried over from the last turn?
Copied abilities generally do not carry over, so he would have to copy it again to exit from a different fog bank. If he doesn’t use it on that next turn, he can only exit from the fog bank he started in.
@Woelf: Just confirming that a copier would indeed need to copy the Fog Hopper ability on the turn prior to hopping in order to use it?
Also, why does the Code expand on the main rules for forts regarding their shooting? (rules first, Code second below)
Lines of fire drawn from forts are not blocked by other ships, sea creatures, or islands.
Lines of fire drawn to and from the fort are not blocked by ships, the island, or any part of the fort itself, but they are blocked by fog banks and icebergs.
This means that ships essentially have the “shoot through ships” ability when targeting forts. Is this because Wizkids was supposed to put that clause in the original fort shooting rules?
Also, just confirming that you cannot voluntarily eliminate cargo? (such as dumping equipment overboard)December 22, 2021 at 10:18 AM #14167
Correct. Because of how it’s written, the fog-hopping ability has to be active when you enter the fog (more technically, when you end your turn in it) AND when you exit.
I don’t recall all of the details or discussion that went into it, but essentially yes, ships can ignore other ships while shooting at a fort.
From a gaming/balance perspective, there may have been issues at one point with players purposely parking ships in a way that made a temporary shield around a fort.
Thematically it also makes sense, because if you’re firing at a large, stationary target up on an island, you’re not going to be aiming anywhere near whatever ships are parked around the shoreline even if they are technically in between.
Correct. You can only dump cargo if an ability specifically allows it, or if another player does something that forces you into an illegal situation that has to be resolved.
It’s not so thematic, but prevents some gamey issues, especially around the capturing rules, where players might otherwise attempt to toss stuff just to prevent an opponent from getting it.December 26, 2021 at 7:30 PM #14265
Potentially silly question.
Under point reducers and modifiers, The Code says:
-The point cost of a crew cannot be reduced below zero.
Can a crew be reduced to zero points? For example, an oarsman on the same ship as Countess Diana Doone. Is the point cost of the oarsman reduced to 0 or does it stay at 1?December 29, 2021 at 12:20 PM #14278
Yes, you can absolutely reduce crew to zero points.
It’s not silly all, and in fact was the direct source of one of the biggest rules disputes back in the very early days of the game. The “infinite oarsman trick”, primarily used with Captain Blackheart, resulted in the controversial (at the time) ruling that point reducers didn’t apply to your build total. That along with repeated reminders that the no-stacking rule applied to the oarsman ability just like any other ability shut down that massive game-breaker before it could become a widespread problem. (As much as I’d like to take credit for the ruling, it was before my time as the RA. Might have even been before Tony/Piranha.)December 31, 2021 at 3:41 PM #14282
Timing question. Let’s say that Commander Temple (SM 068) and Peter Miles (FN 050) are on the Maui’s Fishhook. The Fishhook uses her Hoist arm to explore an enemy derelict. Which ability is applied first? Would Miles be able to steal most of the treasure on the target ship before Temple’s ability kicks in? Or would Temple’s ability take precedence over Miles’s?January 1, 2022 at 10:11 PM #14289
Timing question. Let’s say that Commander Temple (SM 068) and Peter Miles (FN 050) are on the Maui’s Fishhook. The Fishhook uses her Hoist arm to explore an enemy derelict. Which ability is applied first? Would Miles be able to steal most of the treasure on the target ship before Temple’s ability kicks in? Or would Temple’s ability take precedence over Miles’s?
Miles would have to wait until after the explore action was complete, because that action was what caused the ships to touch. However, in this case that timing doesn’t actually matter because you’re allowed to transfer cargo between the ships as part of the explore action, before sending both home.January 2, 2022 at 6:52 AM #14308
Hi all. On our last game there were about a half dozen rule questions raised. The Pirate Code solved most of these, but I do have a timing question. When you move into contact with a derelict ship, you can tow her. She, her crew and treasure are then part of your fleet and can take actions, other than move or shoot (that’s what I remember from the Code).
So if I were to cause a ship to become derelict with one ship, then tow it with another, does the towed, derelict ship (now part of my fleet) then get an action, as it is now part of my fleet and yet to take an action on my turn?
Likewise, if I am towing and successfully dock at my home island, does the derelict ship (after being moved to a docked position on the home island) then get an action on my turn?
Example 1) where you were towing and the derelict ship being towed had a shipwright aboard, could the derelict repair itself while being towed? Repair is not a move or shoot action.
Example 2) where you dock your ship at a home island and it is towing a derelict, could the derelict (when it is placed in the docked position at the home island) take a repair action the turn it was docked?
Example 3) can your ship initiate a tow and then you immediately try to scuttle the ship you just started to tow?
Apologies if this has already been answer, which I’m sure is somewhere in the Code given how comprehensive it is.
EDIT: I had one more question as I couldn’t find an answer… can you ‘stack’ generic crew and benefit from an ability more than once? Specifically, I’m thinking having multiple Musketeer and Helmsman. I get that multiple captains would be pointless and that cannoneers can be stacked but only one per cannon on the ship.January 3, 2022 at 8:22 PM #14309
@Shamsy: For your towing questions, the answer is YES to all! If you give the towed ship a repair action, I believe that would immediately break the tow because the towed ship would no longer be derelict, and the Code states “If a ship is considered derelict it can be towed, even if it is still capable of movement.” Once a mast is up the ship is not considered derelict, so you may want to give the towing ship an action before the repair occurs.
EDIT: I had one more question as I couldn’t find an answer… can you ‘stack’ generic crew and benefit from an ability more than once? Specifically, I’m thinking having multiple Musketeer and Helmsman. I get that multiple captains would be pointless and that cannoneers can be stacked but only one per cannon on the ship.
Nope, it’s known as the No-Stacking rule. Page 16 of the Code covers it. Cannoneers cannot be stacked either.January 3, 2022 at 8:30 PM #14310
Thank you, Ben. We had a couple of instances where players returned a towed ship to their home island and we assumed (correctly it seems) that it could then repair the same turn it was returned/docked. That then led me to consider other ways you could on your turn repair a derelict (in the unlikely event it was captured with a Shipwright crew on board), or ways you may want to stop a towed ship from being recaptured (since you cannot shoot at your own ships to sink them).January 4, 2022 at 11:11 AM #14311
Ben covered it well. Just a couple extra clarifications that often come up:
Generally speaking, the ownership change from towing/capturing an opposing ship takes effect immediately. Because it is now a ship in your fleet, and hasn’t yet been given an action that turn, you can give it one. (Being derelict of course limits the specific actions available.)
When the repair happens, the ship is no longer derelict, so that breaks the tow immediately. If you’re looking to tow the derelict any further, you’ll have to make sure to move it with the towing ship before you start repairs.
You can make an attempt every turn while the ship is being towed, but if successful, the derelict still will not sink until your following turn.January 4, 2022 at 9:53 PM #14312
Woelf, do you know if there’s a specific reason that crew on scuttled ships are eliminated rather than removed from the game? I’m not sure if I really grasped that until rereading the rule just now.January 5, 2022 at 2:12 AM #14314
Thank you, Woelf. I have shared the answers with my group for our next game. Hopefully this weekend if I can keep the momentum up.January 6, 2022 at 3:10 PM #14315
Woelf, do you know if there’s a specific reason that crew on scuttled ships are eliminated rather than removed from the game? I’m not sure if I really grasped that until rereading the rule just now.
Most likely it was just an “oops” when the rule was written and no one ever noticed it, but play it as written. There are a few very specific abilities which could be triggered by that elimination, but for the most part the distinction isn’t going to matter.
I don’t think it was deliberate, considering how frequently “removed” and “eliminated” get interchanged (when they really shouldn’t) elsewhere throughout the rulebook and ability texts.January 16, 2022 at 8:20 PM #14345
“If this ship wins a boarding party, she may capture the crew with the highest point cost instead of eliminating it. A captured crew becomes cargo worth its point cost in gold when unloaded at your home island.”
How would this interact with the gold bonus ability, or other affects the modify gold values?
“One of this ship’s treasures is worth +2 gold when she docks at your home island.”
For example, what would happen if Bonny Peel and Genny Gallows are on the same ship. Would Genny be able to give a bonus to any captures that Bonny Peel has made? Or would Peel’s own ability prevent that, since captured crew are “cargo” and not “treasure”.January 17, 2022 at 5:40 AM #14347
Black Mark makes the crew and the ship that crew is on cursed. The keyword states that any other crew on the ship retain their original nationalities. Would they be able to use their abilities once the ship becomes cursed or would some other ability need to be present to allow the other crew to use their abilities?
For example; Jacques duc de Valois (snape :D) is assigned to Le Bonaparte. Black Mark is declared to be in use. Jacques and the Bonaparte are now Cursed. The captain and helmsman that were also on the ship stay French. Can those two crew still use their abilities?January 17, 2022 at 1:34 PM #14348
The captive becomes “cargo worth … gold”, but doesn’t actually convert it into treasure, so gold modifiers won’t apply.January 17, 2022 at 1:43 PM #14349
The ship becomes fully Cursed while the BM crewmember is on board, so crew matching the ship’s original nationality will not be able to use their abilities unless something else allows them.
In your example, if you need the ship to be Cursed, you’ll have to replace the captain and helmsman with Cursed versions if you want to use them. The French ones will only work if you use Snape without activating Black Mark.January 17, 2022 at 3:35 PM #14350
The ship becomes fully Cursed while the BM crewmember is on board
Does that imply that should the BM crew leave the ship, it would revert back to it’s original faction?
The captive becomes “cargo worth … gold”, but doesn’t actually convert it into treasure, so gold modifiers won’t apply.
Ah shucks. I take it then other abilities that modify gold wouldn’t work as well, such as UT effects like Jade, Spices, Smuggled Goods, etc.?January 18, 2022 at 4:15 PM #14351
The same thing happens to the ship* if Black Mark gets hit by a canceller. It’s not as devastating as when a point-reducer gets hit, but can still mess up your plans at least temporarily. (BM reactivates and re-Curses the ship* when the cancel wears off.)
*And the BM crew itself
Correct.January 18, 2022 at 4:24 PM #14352
Interesting, thanks for clarifying.January 21, 2022 at 6:19 PM #14356
If Davy Jones copied the ability of Namazu:
Give this sea monster a shoot action. A wave S wide and 2L long leaves the sea monster in one direction. Up to 2 masts of every ship in the path of the wave are eliminated. Eliminate one of this sea monster’s masts.
Would the ship he’s on be able to use the ability? Or would the text refering to a “Sea Monster” prevent the usage of the ability?January 23, 2022 at 7:09 PM #14365
Since the ability does not specify and the Code doesn’t seem to either, what would the timing be on Intermediaro?
If this sea creature is within S of both a wild island and a friendly ship, she can place one treasure from that wild island on that ship as a free action.
“This ability may be used if this sea monster and/or the target ship is submerged.”
Sea Creature rules say that Creatures cannot load treasure, however the wording of Intermediaro says place a treasure not load. Does this mean that Intermediaro could give a Treasure to a friendly Sea Monster/Creature provided that target Monster/Creature had cargo space, or would this:
Placing the treasure is treated as if the target ship loaded it directly from the island.
prevent that, since the treasure is treated as if it was loaded and Creatures cannot load treasure.
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