Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #14367
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Apologies for another one, but I’d like some clarification. The Isle of Fire island from Savage Shores is a Mysterious Island, or is treated as one. Ergo if a fort was built on one the effects of the island (below) would not function in accordance to the code ruling? I ask because the code doesn’t mention them and I’d rather not assume.

    Isle of Fire

    This island can be used only as a wild island. At the beginning of his or her turn, the active player rolls a d6. On a result of 6, randomly eliminate one treasure coin from this island.

     

    As a follow up question, if there was a Mysterious Island that could have its abilities used while a fort was built on it, would that be inherently unfair, OP or game-breaking, or would it depend greatly on what the abilities/effects of the island are?

    #14380
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If Davy Jones copied the ability of Namazu:

    Give this sea monster a shoot action. A wave S wide and 2L long leaves the sea monster in one direction. Up to 2 masts of every ship in the path of the wave are eliminated. Eliminate one of this sea monster’s masts.

    Would the ship he’s on be able to use the ability? Or would the text refering to a “Sea Monster” prevent the usage of the ability?

    Copying an ability doesn’t change a ship’s type, so because it refers specifically to “this sea monster” in the text, Davy Jones can’t use it unless he’s riding on a sea monster at the time (via Chariot, etc.).

    Behemoth can copy it and use it normally.

    #14383
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Since the ability does not specify and the Code doesn’t seem to either, what would the timing be on Intermediaro?

    If this sea creature is within S of both a wild island and a friendly ship, she can place one treasure from that wild island on that ship as a free action.

    “This ability may be used if this sea monster and/or the target ship is submerged.”

    I’m not sure what the question is.   Did some additional text get cropped out of your post by accident?

    Sea Creature rules say that Creatures cannot load treasure, however the wording of Intermediaro says place a treasure not load. Does this mean that Intermediaro could give a Treasure to a friendly Sea Monster/Creature provided that target Monster/Creature had cargo space, or would this:

    Placing the treasure is treated as if the target ship loaded it directly from the island.

    prevent that, since the treasure is treated as if it was loaded and Creatures cannot load treasure.

    The recipient of the “placed” treasure loads it, so if it cannot load treasure, Intermediario cannot give it anything.

    #14384
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    I’m not sure what the question is.   Did some additional text get cropped out of your post by accident?

    I wanted to know how often Intermediario could use his ability, if it was a once per turn, once per your turn, etc.

    #14386
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Apologies for another one, but I’d like some clarification. The Isle of Fire island from Savage Shores is a Mysterious Island, or is treated as one. Ergo if a fort was built on one the effects of the island (below) would not function in accordance to the code ruling? I ask because the code doesn’t mention them and I’d rather not assume.

    Isle of Fire

    This island can be used only as a wild island. At the beginning of his or her turn, the active player rolls a d6. On a result of 6, randomly eliminate one treasure coin from this island.

    Even if it’s not explicitly referred to as a Mysterious Island, it functions similar enough to them to be treated the same, so building a fort there will block the effect.

    As a follow up question, if there was a Mysterious Island that could have its abilities used while a fort was built on it, would that be inherently unfair, OP or game-breaking, or would it depend greatly on what the abilities/effects of the island are?

    Mysterious Islands are already kind of broken on their own, so whether an effect that could still function with a fort present would break things even more will depend entirely on the effect.

    Any part that was meant to function while a fort was sitting on it would have to be clearly stated as such in the text, so it could override the standard rule that normally shuts them down.

    For the most part, that rule exists to avoid weird interactions with the various effects that manipulate treasures, and more generally to prevent ships from easily farming effects from a protected position.

     

    I think it could be pretty neat to have some MI effects that would only function while a fort was present.  There’s a lot you could do, from simple boosts to cannon rolls/ranges and defensive bonuses, to more complex things like making it more costly to build there, or having ongoing negative effects that have to be dealt with to keep a fort in a prime location.

    #14387
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I’m not sure what the question is.   Did some additional text get cropped out of your post by accident?

    I wanted to know how often Intermediario could use his ability, if it was a once per turn, once per your turn, etc.

    It’s one treasure per ship per turn, so if you have multiple ships nearby, you could use it once for each.  They do not all have to occur at the same time.

    #14395
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    It’s one treasure per ship per turn, so if you have multiple ships nearby, you could use it once for each.  They do not all have to occur at the same time.

    Thanks, I have an idea for a fleet involving Intermediaro and ships that can submerge. 😀

     

    I think it could be pretty neat to have some MI effects that would only function while a fort was present.  There’s a lot you could do, from simple boosts to cannon rolls/ranges and defensive bonuses, to more complex things like making it more costly to build there, or having ongoing negative effects that have to be dealt with to keep a fort in a prime location.

    They haven’t been released yet but I have made a “mysterious island” that does something like this. I suspect that the wording might need to be cleared up however.

    #14480
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    If I choose to use the ability of the English Native canoes (below), would I have to apply it to all of them in the set, or however many I chose, since all of the canoes are technically being given a move action.

    Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, you may repair one mast on ships within S of any native canoes.

     

     

    #14481
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If I choose to use the ability of the English Native canoes (below), would I have to apply it to all of them in the set, or however many I chose, since all of the canoes are technically being given a move action.

    Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, you may repair one mast on ships within S of any native canoes.

    “Move” is the action given, but what each canoe does with that move action is up to you.    Some can move while others make repairs.

    Note that the way it’s worded, the roll/attempt is what replaces the movement, so if that roll fails, the canoe cannot move instead.

    #14528
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Suppose you decide to cancel a friendly Submarine to the surface. At the end of your turn what happens to the submarine? Does it return to a submerged status or does it remain on the surface?

    #14531
    Peter
    Participant

    If I have a sacrifice captain and a doctor on the same ship, can I sacrifice another crew, then save him with the doctor (with a net result of no extra action and the sacrificed crew being turned face down)?

    #14533
    Davy Jones
    Participant

    No, because the Sacrifice ability only resolved if the crew sacrificed is removed from the game. This is because it is a cost to activate said ability.  The “Doctor” ability only works on crew that would be eliminated.

    #14538
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @Xerecs

    Suppose you decide to cancel a friendly Submarine to the surface. At the end of your turn what happens to the submarine? Does it return to a submerged status or does it remain on the surface?

    Submerged (also Ghostly) is only toggled at the beginning of your own turn, so if it gets shut off (cancelled) in between, it stays off until you turn it back on.

    #14539
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If I have a sacrifice captain and a doctor on the same ship, can I sacrifice another crew, then save him with the doctor (with a net result of no extra action and the sacrificed crew being turned face down)?

    ————————-

    No, because the Sacrifice ability only resolved if the crew sacrificed is removed from the game. This is because it is a cost to activate said ability.  The “Doctor” ability only works on crew that would be eliminated.

    Davy is correct.  Both possible results of that combination are blocked.   You can’t use them together to get unlimited free bonus actions, nor can you use them simply to flip crew facedown.

    #14540
    Davy Jones
    Participant

    Haven’t seen you around in a while, ahoy!

    #14547
    T26E4
    Participant

    How do cancel abilities work with unrevealed crew? The specific example I’m thinking of involves crew with the Eternal keyword encountering a ship with the “one ship/crew within S can’t use its ability that turn” ability. If the person knows I typically use Eternal, can they just call it out as cancelled on a hunch? Or does it have to be revealed by in-game means to be cancelled?

    #14561
    Woelf
    Moderator

    How do cancel abilities work with unrevealed crew? The specific example I’m thinking of involves crew with the Eternal keyword encountering a ship with the “one ship/crew within S can’t use its ability that turn” ability. If the person knows I typically use Eternal, can they just call it out as cancelled on a hunch? Or does it have to be revealed by in-game means to be cancelled?

    You can’t cancel a facedown crew, even if you do know what it is.  You have to wait until it’s revealed before it can be targeted.

    With a facedown Eternal crew, the only way to cancel it (the first time, at least), is for the canceller to be within range of the sinking ship at the moment it would sink, which is when the Eternal crew would have to be revealed.

     

    There’s some metagaming opportunity there in deciding whether to reveal an Eternal crew that you know would get cancelled immediately, to leave the opponent guessing about a facedown crew on some other ship, but whether you reveal and get cancelled or choose not to reveal, either way you’re going to lose the first ship.

    #14562
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Suppose that Jonah is on the same ship as Papa Doc. Would Jonah’s ability force any possessed crew to take up cargo space, or would the possessed crew not take up cargo space, per the Code entry?

    For reference,

    Ability of Jonah:
    “Always place this crew face up; it cannot be eliminated unless its ship sinks. Crew placed on this ship cost no points, but they always each take up one cargo space. When this ship is hit, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move the crew on this ship with the highest point cost to a wild island chosen by the player to your left.”

     

    Papa Doc (possession):
    “If an enemy ship is within S of this ship, you can use this ship’s action for the turn to try to possess a target crew on that ship. Roll a d6; on a result of 6, the target is immediately assigned to this ship. Its nationality changes to match the nationality of this ship.”

     

    “The Pirate Code, Possession ability, pg 36”
    Crew “possessed” by this ability do not take up cargo space and do not count against the ship’s point limit.

    #14622
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Can a Hoist’s free explore action happen in between its own move segments?  (ex: move S, hoist free explore, move S)

    If you cancel the Sea Monster keyword, can you still use an L booster like Jerky Johnson to give it +L?

    #14650
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @Xerecs

    Suppose that Jonah is on the same ship as Papa Doc. Would Jonah’s ability force any possessed crew to take up cargo space, or would the possessed crew not take up cargo space, per the Code entry?

    That line in the PC entry for Papa Doc should be applied as a rule, which means it can be overridden by other abilities, but even if it was part of his printed ability text, Jonah’s “always” would still take priority, so the possessed crew will take up one space each.

     As an extension of that, if you have Jonah and Papa Doc on the same ship, but no free cargo spaces, you won’t be able to use Papa Doc’s ability at all.  You can’t “possess” a crewmember just to immediately toss them (or anyone else) overboard.

     

    #14651
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @Ben

    Can a Hoist’s free explore action happen in between its own move segments?  (ex: move S, hoist free explore, move S)

    No.  It’s an independent action that isn’t applied as part of a move action, so you have to complete the entire move action first (or use it before moving).

    If you cancel the Sea Monster keyword, can you still use an L booster like Jerky Johnson to give it +L?

    Yes.  Even though it loses the abilities of its own keyword, it still counts as a sea monster (ship type) and can still use the Jerky boost.

    #14683
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    “Code entry for Intermediario”

    Placing the treasure is treated as if the target ship loaded it directly from the island. If the target ship does not have at least once cargo space open or some other ability would prevent it from loading the treasure, it cannot be targeted by this ability.

     

    I assume that the “cannot load treasure” part of the Sea Creature rules would satisfy the above and thus prevent Intermediaro from giving treasure to a friendly Sea Monster?

    #14684
    CrazyIvan
    Participant

    Is it correct that a Musketeer shot can benefit from the “This ship eliminates two masts with one hit.” ability?

    The code entry says “This ability applies to all additional cannons provided to the ship by abilities, unless specified otherwise.” and doesn’t seem to contradict anything in the Musketeer’s wording, but I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

    #14685
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @Xerecs

    I assume that the “cannot load treasure” part of the Sea Creature rules would satisfy the above and thus prevent Intermediaro from giving treasure to a friendly Sea Monster?

    Correct.   Intermediario’s ability doesn’t say anything about overriding cargo restrictions, so that sea creature rule still applies.


    @CrazyIvan

    Is it correct that a Musketeer shot can benefit from the “This ship eliminates two masts with one hit.” ability?

    The code entry says “This ability applies to all additional cannons provided to the ship by abilities, unless specified otherwise.” and doesn’t seem to contradict anything in the Musketeer’s wording, but I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

    Correct.   The Musketeer’s cannon is treated like any other already on the ship, and can benefit from any other cannon abilities as long as they don’t touch its range or rank.

    #14692
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Once each time this ship is given an action, you can roll 2d6 any time you would roll a d6. Choose the result you want to use.

     

    Can this ability be applied to extra action, SAT, or other such die-rolling ability? The Code is not clear.

    #14693
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Once each time this ship is given an action, you can roll 2d6 any time you would roll a d6. Choose the result you want to use.

     Can this ability be applied to extra action, SAT, or other such die-rolling ability? The Code is not clear.

    That ability applies only to die rolls made as part of an action.

    While those abilities can generate actions, the roll itself doesn’t occur within one, so you can’t use the die doubler there.

    #14694
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    “The Code, Nemo’s Plans”

    If a UT applies to, modifies, or is triggered by a specific action or situation (other than exploring the wild island) it may be used once, each time that action or situation occurs.

     

    Does this mean that if Cross of Coronado (or a similar treasure) were on the same ship as the Plans, you could use the Cross every time the ship would loose a mast, or just the first time?

    Ability of CoC for reference:

    You may load this treasure face down. If one of this ship’s masts would be eliminated, you may reveal Cross of Coronado and remove it from the game instead.

     

    ——-

    Using the same line from the Plans, how many times could you trigger Runes of Thor/Loki per turn? Once per every turn, once per your turn?

    #14695
    Woelf
    Moderator

    “The Code, Nemo’s Plans”

    If a UT applies to, modifies, or is triggered by a specific action or situation (other than exploring the wild island) it may be used once, each time that action or situation occurs.

    Does this mean that if Cross of Coronado (or a similar treasure) were on the same ship as the Plans, you could use the Cross every time the ship would loose a mast, or just the first time?

    Ability of CoC for reference:

    You may load this treasure face down. If one of this ship’s masts would be eliminated, you may reveal Cross of Coronado and remove it from the game instead.

    Nemo’s Plans belongs in a museum!   Then it won’t keep causing so many problems.

     The “once each time” phrase is most important here, so you could use the Cross multiple times in a turn if multiple different mast elimination effects occur, but if multiples would happen as part of a single action (shoot action, most commonly), the Cross could only prevent the elimination of a single mast during that action.

    ——-

    Using the same line from the Plans, how many times could you trigger Runes of Thor/Loki per turn? Once per every turn, once per your turn?

    Similar applies to these.   You could use it against a ram roll, then a boarding roll, and then a single shoot action roll, but you can’t use it on every single die rolled during a single shoot action.

    See Below

    #14696
    Ben
    Keymaster

    On Nemo’s Plans with Runes of Thor:

    Similar applies to these.   You could use it against a ram roll, then a boarding roll, and then a single shoot action roll, but you can’t use it on every single die rolled during a single shoot action.

    The discussion from 2020 gave me the impression that this couldn’t be done.  Is there something I’m missing?

    #14697
    Woelf
    Moderator

    On Nemo’s Plans with Runes of Thor:

    Similar applies to these.   You could use it against a ram roll, then a boarding roll, and then a single shoot action roll, but you can’t use it on every single die rolled during a single shoot action.

    The discussion from 2020 gave me the impression that this couldn’t be done.  Is there something I’m missing?

    No, definitely use that previous ruling instead.   I knew it had been covered at one point, but couldn’t remember what it was and I was interpreting what I’d written in the PC years earlier.    The entry needs to be rewritten to be more clear and specific.

    I’d prefer to avoid calling out a bunch of other UTs specifically by name under the Nemo’s Plans entry, but maybe that’s necessary?

    What other questionable ones are out there that need it, besides the Runes and the Cross?

    ———————

    ADDED:

    Here’s a revised version of the text.  Does this help clear things up a little better for general usage?

    -If a UT applies to, modifies, or is triggered by a specific action it may be used once, each time that action occurs.

    -If a UT applies immediately upon being found and/or provides an action directly to a ship, it may be used once during each of your own turns.

    -If a UT is loaded facedown and can be revealed voluntarily later, including as a response to an opponent’s actions or effects (such as a die roll), it can be used once per round.

     

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