Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
It could work, but depending on how the ship model was designed and how the distinction between them was set up, the ability/keyword text explaining it could get pretty complicated.
I was thinking that some masts would have a cannon printed on them, while others did not. For example, a ship that has 3 total masts, but only has cannons assigned to 2 of those 3. I might expand upon this further in Custom Ships.
If a ship existed that tracked its cannons and number of masts separately from one another, would that ship be compatible with the existing rules, or would it be better in a differently structured game?
My thoughts on The Pirates who Never Met:
Le Bouscat could be a very interesting ship. Lots of cargo and already decent cannons with an ability that would incline me to put a captain on her, particularly her linked crew a SAC-captain. 15 points seems fair to me for her.
Chamount could be very good as a pure gunship. She’s arguably better than HMS Dreadnought, given her speed and cannons as well as a slightly lower point cost. Based on speed and cannons alone I’d consider upping her point cost to either match or maybe exceed the Dreadnoughts, as speed wins games. Granted, 24+ points is a LOT of points to invest in a ship before adding any crew. Given that I don’t think Chamount would see much action in 40-60 point games but would maybe see usage in higher point games or in campaigns.
Napoule is maybe better than La Magnifique, despite the cargo difference. 16 points seems fine for her.
Mons en Barcul is likely fine at 13 points, as she’s very similar to La Possession, at least to me.
SDDV is also likely fine at 10 points, though I could see the point cost dropping to 9, as the Dover and DHII are both better overall ships imo at 10 points.
Holy moly, Montemorency is a FAST ship, potential of 4S movement before any extra action. I’m not really a fan of faction specific cannon bonuses, but one against the Pirates is a bit of an exception, given that the Pirates are the most likely faction you’d match up against. Her point cost seems fine, given her overall good stats.
Libourne is a neat ship, likely fine at 7 points.
Lagny sur Marne is a gold ship, no questions about it, but could also be run as a hybrid ship, similar to Le Triton.
La Celle makes an interesting ship. Good speed, mediocre cannons, nice cargo for her size, and a situational helpful ability. She has the speed and cargo space to steal a treasure and not get mauled in the process, but can also be run as a pure gold ship with a helmsman and explorer. Seems fine at 11 points.
I’m not sure how often you’d be able to use the ability of SMsO. On one hand the ability is interesting and can be used to hit multiple islands, but on the other it relies on an island set-up that doesn’t follow the official minimum island distance of 3L. However, now that I think about it, you could still get some use out of it as a scout ship to aid in gold gathering. SMsO has a fast base move and a range of L, giving her an effective range of S+L+S+L to mark an island as explored. I think I’d need to see this one in action with standard island set-up to get a better feeling of the ability. Outside of her ability she has good speed and average cannons and cargo. She could be run as a hybrid with a captain and helmsman, as the L-exploring can be used at any point during her turn, which would allow her to get within range of an island, mark it explored, and finish moving to dock at the now marked explored island to load treasure. (Unless I’ve gotten my order of pirates operations mixed up and ships with abilities similar to this can’t do that)
Orvault is interesting and maybe too good. The only comparison is USS Springfield an 18 point ship from SCS. Orvault is arguably much better, as she has more cargo, access to much better crew, and better cannons. I could see this one going up a point or two (10 or 11), even though WK grossly overpriced many ships with this cannon bonus ability, it does pay off in larger scale games, and sometimes even in smaller scale games.
La Teste almost feels overpriced, but EA is a very good ability, especially when built into a ship with good to decent stats like La Teste. Still, I feel this could either stay as-is or go down to 13 points.
Montbeliard feels very similar to HMS Algiers(RV), however I think the Mont is better, based on speed and cargo space. Algiers is possibly over priced for what you get so I think the Mont is fine at 11 points.
Villiers le Bel is quite good. Nice speed and cargo for her size and a very useful ability, seems okay at 11 points.
Villiers sur Marne seems fine at 8 points, also very similar to Le Triton.
HSC is a nice flotilla tug. Excellent speed and nice cannons would incline me to run her as a small gunship, and paired with a flotilla.
Pride of Bordeaux is a weird one. Very fast out of the gate with no cargo, and doesn’t loose too much speed when she picks up some treasure or has a helmsman added. Likely fine at 10 points as she has very nice cargo for her size, an almost purpose built gold runner.
Speaking of a purpose built gold runner, Ris Orangis makes a very nice gold runner. Good speed and cargo, along with an ability that enables her to aggressively go after similarly sized pirate gold runners.
Even though she has a very nice point cost of 3, I’d struggle to find a use for the Bezons. Almost no cargo space and an in-accurate cannon. She does have decent speed, so she could be used to haul around a flotilla.
Bergerac is interesting. I dislike 1 mast ships with single base move segments, but she does have a nice defensive ability that will keep her safe from most ships, given the predominance of L-range cannons in the game. However, like all 1 mast ships, she’s susceptible to ram damage, and has average cargo for her size. I’d likely use her as a gold ship or as a very odd 1 mast gunship. You could probably bring her speed up to S+S and not need to increase her point cost of 5.
Jacques is well suited to being used on his linked ship, but would also see use on other large cargo vessels. Why is his point cost at 6?
Rene is a very nice addition to any gunship, as the trigger for their ability will stack with other more regular cannon bonuses. His price seems fine at 3, given that the bonus is conditional and doesn’t apply to all ships.
Charles Castel and Louis Pastuer are fine point wise, and add more to the already excellent French named crew roster.
I’d use Louis-Espirit on the DJC La Corse, to get a smaller version of the SM Acorazado. I don’t think the French have a 5 mast ship with that ability, but if they do I’m certainly putting him there instead. 😀
Why is Jacque Cartier 6 points? That combination would come out 5 points I think. Also, is he meant to be related to Louis Cartier from FN?
Whew! I’ll be getting to the rest of the set in due time!
What the subtle difference in the MKL does is un-break Le Jongleur (MI-209), which technically wouldn’t be able to use its built-in HI-Raider ability at all if you took them exactly as WK had them written. A side effect is that also allows you to put an Ex-Pat on some other ship with that ability and still use it, but that’s minor to the point of being almost irrelevant.
This would also apply to Ex-Pat crew that do have HI-Raiding as an ability, such as Yeshaji Angria, correct?
The Code, pg 3, “Derelict, Sunk, and Wrecked”
A ship is “sunk” when it is hit by a cannon shot and has no masts remaining that can be removed. A sunken ship is removed from the game, unless some ability or effect allows it to return to play.
–emphasis added–
The Code, pg 4, “Removed from the game v Eliminated”
“Removed from the game” refers to a game piece that has been taken out of play without necessarily being killed or destroyed. Once a game piece has been removed from the game it cannot be returned to play unless a rule or ability specifically allows it.
Ability text of Runes of Odin, Frozen North 096
Load this treasure face down. When revealed, place an iceberg from outside the game anywhere in the play area not within S of an island. If the iceberg touches any ship, remove the ship (and any crew and treasure aboard her) from the game. Then remove Runes of Odin from the game.
–emphasis added–
My question is; does Runes of Odin technically sink a ship, or is something else happening?
I don’t really like it being called “normal” or even “standard” when there’s a significant modifier added on immediately, but I think it gets the intent across fairly well. The alternative would be to go into much more detail about firing each/all cannons “using the standard rules, but…”
Hmmm. I think I’ll keep the S range for the mortar attack as well, seems less confusing and keeps the keyword for being very wordy.
The repair-move part is a little ambiguous. Is that meant to be a free move after repairing, or is it intended to be a full action that counts toward the increased action limit? If it’s meant to be a free move, you should use the exact same wording as the Reverse Captain so it’s clear what else works with it (specifically, not a Captain).
It is meant to be a free move action, not a full regular move. My main thought process was that you’d use a shipwright to help in a combat situation. I’ll adjust the wording. My original thought for that aspect was being able to shoot as part of a repair action, but I decided that would be too messy with timing and possibly create several problems.
The “no other abilities” text wouldn’t help in that case, for the same reason you can’t use BA against anything with the “Ships within S cannot shoot this ship” ability. If you don’t have a legal shot in the first place, you can’t apply any shooting abilities to it.
The way you have the keyword written above, I would assume the minimum range of S would still apply to the mortar attack.
~~~~~~
Does the mortar attack still obey the keyword’s base minimum range of S, or is it exempt from that because it’s specifically referred to as different from a regular shoot action?
How would the wording need to change to allow a mortar attack to target something within S of the ship?
Is that meant to be a free move after repairing, or is it intended to be a full action that counts toward the increased action limit?
Meant to be free, like the reverse captain example.
Does the mortar attack still obey the keyword’s base minimum range of S, or is it exempt from that because it’s specifically referred to as different from a regular shoot action?
I was actually going to ask you that, though for a different reason. I tacked on the Broadsides Attack “no other abilities” line to the very end. I’m not certain if that would “overrule” so to speak the S range requirement.
If this is going to be a unique (physical) ship type, you could indirectly prevent copying by having the keyword refer repeatedly to that ship type, which would prevent it from working on other types of ships, although a simple line saying “This keyword cannot be copied.” would work just as well and would be more universal.
At this point the keyword wouldn’t appear on a unique ship design, I’m envisioning a standard ship. However if I can finagle a way to combine a Bombardier and a Switchblade…….
Are there thematic/historical justifications for the increased action limit, the repairs while moving, or the boarding protection?
Thematic mostly. The base inspiration for the keyword is a suit of armor that was cool but not very battle effective. I’m still in rough draft mode, and haven’t decided anything for the final version.
If the intent was just to raise the action limit by 1 without actually generating those actions it gets a little more interesting, but the wording as-is wouldn’t work because that implies it’s also giving the ship those actions.
That was my intent. Whatever ship or keyword this would appear on/in would be able to be given more than 2 actions in a single turn. I did not intend for the ability to generate extra or additional actions.
I intend for the ability to be part of a new keyword for future custom ships. If copying is such a concern, would adding text into the keyword that specifically prevent the keyword from being copied work? I believe that you can pick and choose what abilities to copy if a target has more than one, but you cannot cherry pick a keyword, correct?
The rest of the keyword as it stands now, with an updated text:
—keyword—
This ship’s action limit is increased to three; all additional actions must still be generated normally by other abilities. This ship cannot shoot at ships within S of her. As part of a repair action this ship may be given a move action. While this ship has all of her masts, she cannot be boarded; this ship can always board.When an —keyword— is given a shoot action you may choose whether that action is a normal shoot action or a mortar attack (it cannot perform both with a single action). A mortar attack allows the —keyword— to attack any one target (including submerged ships) within L+L of its hull. Roll a d6; on a roll of 3 or higher the mortar attack is successful and it eliminates up to two masts on the target, and none of the crew or ship abilities may be used on the target’s next turn. No other abilities can be applied to a mortar attack.
A ship cannot be given more than two full (non-free) actions on a single turn unless an ability clearly and specifically states that it allows more than two actions. No such ability exists.
If such an ability were to exist, how would it need to be worded?
“This ship may be given up to three actions in a single turn.”
Would the above satisfy the clearly and specifically stated part? Would this be an absurdly OP custom ability?
Correct, at least the normal ones printed on the cards separate from ability text; they could technically be overridden by abilities.
Would Jonah override a Link then?
Pirate Code, Ability Conflict Heirarchy, pg 15
When an ability and a rule conflict the ability always
takes precedence regardless of the terms used, unless specifically stated otherwise.The above is leading me to believe that he (and others with that ability) would override a Link. For example, Jonah is on the Golden Medusa (RV003) with her Linked crew, Lady Baptiste (RV018). Does the Link not function properly or would Baptiste still link, providing a cargo space that she then fills, per link rules and the ability of Jonah?
How would a crew linking situation be handled with Jonah, say Fidel and Gaspar Zuan on the same ship with Jonah. Would they still effectively take up one cargo space, or would Jonah force them to both take up a cargo space?
If a ship with the “Two hits from the same shoot action are required to eliminate one of this ship’s masts.” ability is hit by something with “Once per turn when this ship hits an enemy ship, also eliminate one crew from that ship.” does it still eliminate a crew if it only scores one successful hit, so not causing a mast to be lost?
Likewise, would something like La Belle Etoile still cause a ship with “Two hits from the same shoot action are required to eliminate one of this ship’s masts.” to still lose something on every successful hit regardless of how many masts are actually eliminated?
Yes to both of these. Those abilities are triggered by hitting a ship, not eliminating a mast.
150 point Dragon Fleet
After seeing the 100 point Dragon Fleet, and some minor discussion on Discord, I went and created this fleet. Similar in concept to the original, Rapto Maw, Angelica, and Shal-Bala will fly around the map with EA provided by Mycron, LeBeaux, and Deleflote to move into position and then fire their “cannons”. Supporting them and providing most of the gold running capacity of the fleet is not one, not two, but FOUR sets of Native Canoes. The American, Spanish, French and English canoes are squeezed in where they can, with the English Canoes providing a very important aspect to the fleet, allowing for the Dragons to “heal” after a battle. To that end, those canoes will likely either stay at or near my home island, while the rest go out and run gold or else position themselves optimally for Dragon healing. Supporting all of them is the Bolingbroke, with Bratley, Myngs and Hermione Gold aboard, giving the fleet a traditional gunship. Cannibals, Curse of Davy Jones and Maps of Hades are included to slow down enemy runners, and potentially put enemy ships within range of Swoop Attacks from Dragons.
You could probably get the bones of this fleet down to 100 points by dropping the American and French Canoes, along with the Bolingbroke. At such a high point level, a serious dedicated gunship will be very bad news for this fleet, along with any kind of canceller. Another major drawback to the fleet is the overall fragility, canoes are eliminated in one hit, the essential ships are all 1 mast, making the susceptible to ramming and anyone running Odin’s Revenge.
Angelica (19)
Shal-Bala (20)
Raptor Maw (16)
Le Coeur du Lion(2)+ Princess Arii Auraa(0), Deleflote(9), Chieftain(9)
USS Annapolis(6)+ CPO Richard(3), GWLB(6), Chieftain (10)
Patagonia(4)+ Robinson(0), Mycron(6), Chieftain(12)
Banshee’s Cry(3)+ Jonah(0), Anamaria(3), Chieftain(9)
HMS Bolingbroke(10)+Bratley(0), Sir Christopher Myngs(3), H. Gold(5)
Spanish Canoes
English Canoes
American Canoes
French CanoesUT: Maps of Hades, Curse of Davy Jones, Cannibals
Nereides feels a little cheap, but only just. The first half of your Ironclad keyword scales with the size of the ship, on a small one, it’s almost useless as the small ship is susceptible to ramming. Your keyword solves this a little by throwing in “ramming cannot eliminate this ships masts” ability. Then again, it does move S…….
Text on Kiwa should be fixed to read as this ship instead of this crew. 10 points feels fine for her.
Tinirau seems okay to me, an excellent flotilla tug.
Pegasus has a very useful ability, potentially one of the most powerful in game. She feels like a direct upgrade over the Hessian from DJC. Given her speed I’d probably put her at 10 points instead of 9.
Wurger could get complicated and very headache inducing to play against. Even though she’s a 2 mast ship I’d consider increasing her point cost a little or consider giving her a different ability.
Stratus is going to be a FAST ship. Considering that she’s only a 3 mast ship she feels appropriately costed however.
Cumulus is going to be annoying to deal with while it is aloft. Needing a 5-6 to even hit it while it’s flying and then needing a second 5-6 cannon roll? Not impossible but it will make this ship very difficult to deal with. However she’s costed correctly I feel.
I don’t quite get what you’re intending with the ability of the Cirrus. Airship state is determined at the beginning of your turn, before ships start moving. You can simply declare her to be landed and explore the island normally with an explore action or an explorer crew.
I think that the ability and possibly keyword of Airship would need to be refined and defined if the Altos wants to keep its ability. Mostly I think you’d need to define what would constitute as a ram to an aloft Airship. Since the bow of the vessel technically isn’t in the water, would the bow part of the base be considered for ramming? You could sidestep some of this I think by giving her the regular S-board ability, which ties the boarding party to a move action and is a bit less confusing to work out.
Is Air Dragoon the same as Aerial Dragoon? A ship could do this anyway, not all cannons need to be fired at the same target. Additionally I think shooting needs to be flushed out in the Airship keyword, as other than an opposing ship targeting an aloft Airship it’s not mentioned.
I would recommend switching vessels with ships in the first half of Nemo’s ability. Technically the same thing, but the wordage more closely resembles that used by Wizkids and is a way to avoid confusion. This version of Nemo is too cheap, I’d put him around 12 points, given that the cannon ability is worth about 4 points and his main ability is unchanged from his ME version which was costed around 8 points.
I know Gustav’s ability was 5 points originally, but WK changed it to 6, I’d recommend the same here.
Nautilus could maybe go up one point to 17, the auto success on any ram attempt is pretty strong, effectively enabling her to ram a mast off of a healthy ten mast.
Polaris seems okay, but I think the wording of the Torpedo keyword could be refined.
Hephaestus is likely okay at 15, but could go up to match the point cost of the original Nautilus.
Odyssey is likely fine at 12, an interesting gold runner for certain. Her ability will allow her to get within S while still submerged and surface on the next turn keeping her “safe” from opposing ships while she gathers treasure.
This version of the Mobilis is probably too cheap. For a submarine she has excellent speed and good cargo. I’d suggest moving her point cost to 10 or 11.
Mako will likely be a pain to deal with in a game, but she seems okay. You could change her ability to read as one cargo instead of one crew or treasure, as that would catch both as well as anything else the target ship might be carrying.
I’m not sure how I feel about the Erebus. The original version of the Mobilis from MI does the exact same thing for the exact same cost and is a massive headache to deal with in any game, given the double layer of defense. From campaign experience ships like this could easily go to 15 or 16 points, however for more casual games in the 40 or 60 point range I think the Erebus is okay, as she does have less cargo than the original Mobilis, despite her slight speed increase.
Why does the Oceania have that first line of ability text? Per the Air Dragoon keyword, they can be assigned to the ship at the beginning of the game without needing any special parameter, unless I’m missing something somewhere? Moving on from that, I feel that Oceania could move up a point or two, given that the Dragoons are very similar to Native Canoes.
This version of the Matuku is a very good gold runner. That gold bonus ability can win games with only a couple uses, couple that with decent speed and good cargo all for 10 points makes for a very good gold runner. 10 points might be too cheap, but I think testing would lend better results.
Even though it has a negative ability, I don’t feel that the Pacifica is worth 4 points, and could come up one or two.
Even though she’s a small ship, the Perseus should be more expensive. With a captain and helmsman she’s looking at a max speed of S+S+S+S with some very accurate cannons. Moving her point cost to 9 or 10 would be ideal I think.
Fiji has a good ability, but I’m not sure how I feel about the ship. She’s small enough to the point that her ability might not be all that useful (like the Coral from RV), but on the other hand she has good cargo space and a low point cost. Playtesting I think is needed for this one.
Galateia seems okay as-is.
If I could have some clarity on transferring cargo. Suppose two friendly ships are docked at the same friendly fort. Can the two ships transfer cargo (treasure, crew, etc) between them? Either by placing it on/in the fort and then onto the other ship or could the cargo simply be moved from A to B without needing to go to the island in between?
Also, where is the “Transfer Rule” covered? Is it in the Code and I’ve just been missing it?
Agree that the Privateers could come down to 4 points, and the Antelope probably could as well. Getting the captain ability for one point however seems a bit strong, especially since Barrett could be placed on a different ship for a budget option captain.
If it was allowed for usage in a game, could the Sleigh start the game with Unique Treasure aboard her?
This ship cannot be shot at, and she cannot sink. She begins the game fully loaded with treasure from her controller’s collection. Her base move becomes 6L when she has no available cargo capacity.
If you can, could you include Abandoned crew in that mix to give the Sleigh more crew?
When Sleigh goes first I think Whitebeard would “hohoho” the Locker into missing her turn (unless the controller guessed wrong which ship to lock up), in which case I think DJ wouldn’t be able to copy Whitebeard and freeze the Sleigh.
The work around for that might be to use Behemoth, and not rely on a crew to copy the ability, unless Behemoth can’t copy anything on a skipped turn…..
If you use Hidden Cove to fling a ship to a Mysterious Island, can you immediately roll for that Island’s effects? If you can, can the target ship be given a move action to move away, re-dock and roll for effects again?
How does the ability of Intermediario interact with Mysterious Islands? Would his ability bypass any effects of revealed MI’s? As in, I wouldn’t need to roll for effects if I use Intermediario to get treasure onto a nearby friendly ship(s)?
Does the Sea Monster movement bonus ability (Sargasso Nightmare, El Pescador, etc.) apply to the target Sea Monster for one move action or an entire turn? For example, if I have a friendly SM within L of El Pescador and I give that Monster a move action that puts it out of range of El Pescador. If I give that Monster a second action to move again, would Pescador’s +L still be applied?
Thinking about I think it might not, since the ability says begins move, not begins turn.
Ability for reference:
If a sea monster begins its move within L of this ship, it gets +L to its base move.Adding +3 to a coin seems pretty powerful, especially in competitive games. Ship seems okay otherwise. I don’t like the Pirates getting a Cargo Master but Philipe is an interesting crew, given the link. Flavor-wise he’s another of the Zuan Pirates that have given Luis a bad name?
The updated text in the Master Keyword List covers that part. Even though it can be triggered by a shoot action, it’s not actually part of that action, and it’s not treated like a cannon, so essentially it bypasses/ignores ALL defensive abilities that would prevent shots and/or reduce damage.
I need to start reading that more. 😀 Thanks for the clarification, but as a follow-up…..
Aside from keeping your distance or taking out the scorpion before it can attack, the only ability that will help is a canceler that can disable the keyword before the blade swings.
Would Holy Water also prevent the blade from swinging? I’d imagine that the blade would be treated as a direct effect of an enemy ship.
The Pirate Code, Scorpion keyword, pg 37
“Defensive pieces such as the panels of a turtle ship or the outrigger of a catamaran are ignored by a blade attack, and remain in place.”
What else does a scorpion blade ignore? The Code only has this one line about the blade attack ignoring defensive abilities. Would the blade eliminate a mast from a ship such as the Constitution(RV) or Algernon; or ships that cannot be hit by L-range cannons or cannot be shot at by ships within S?
Holy Water/DJH lists treasure stealers/swappers as direct affects that it protects against. I take it to mean that any other treasures on the same ship would be protected as well, or do the Water/Heart only protect themselves from being swapped or stolen?
If a ship wins a boarding party against a ship with Unique Treasure on board, can the winning ship decide to steal a Unique Treasure from the loosing ship? The Code is open-ended in boarding, simply saying “a Treasure”.
Suppose you have the Savage Shores version of Wraith in your fleet, and a source of the SAC ability. If I SAC a crew can I choose not to roll for Wraith or is the roll mandatory? PC entry seems to indicate that the roll is optional.
“Pirate Code, Wraith, pg23”
If a ship (or crew) has the ability to eliminate a crew to gain an extra action, this ability may be applied. If the roll is successful, the crew is placed on this ship normally and the ship does not gain the extra action because the crew did not remain eliminated
-Emphasis added-
Ability of Wraith: Whenever any crew is eliminated, roll a d6; on a result of 6, assign the crew to this ship. Its nationality changes to match the nationality of this ship and it becomes linked to this crew.
Would the Mines unique treasure be considered a direct ability affect if it was used against a ship with Holy Water/Davy Jones Heart?
Mines: Load this treasure face down. Reveal it when target enemy ship moves within S of this ship. Choose and eliminate one mast from the target at the end of her move. Remove Mines from the game.