Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #11535
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I’ve been wondering can you put a Tribal Chieftain of a different nation Say the Cursed Chieftain on the HMS Concorde, Would the Chieftain still be able to command the Cursed Native Canoes?

    If the nationalities don’t match, and there’s no other ability that allows other nations to function on the ship, the Cheiftain’s ability won’t work.

    And also, can you stack the S-Cancel abilities?

    Multiple different cancelers could target a single ship/crew, but each has to come from a separate ship.

    Two or more cancelers on the same ship would be restricted by the no-stacking rule like any other ability.

    Also if you have someone with SAC and someone with the Doctor ability on the same ship can you SAC the second Oarsman thats on that ship and then flip it face down due to the Doctor on that ship, And if so would you get the extra action from the SAC Ability?

    To use a SAC ability, the crew has to be eliminated permanently. If something prevents it from being eliminated, or it comes back immediately after being eliminated, you don’t get the extra action and in most of those cases you can’t use the SAC ability on it at all.

    #11536
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If the UT is one that must be revealed when loaded, it would be flipped back up as soon as it was placed on the new ship.

    In that case it wouldn’t take up cargo space once it was face up… so technically you can use Barrel o’ Monkeys to your advantage where the transferred coin does not ever take up cargo space, correct? (Ex: If a ship had a full cargo hold and got to take a face up UT via the monkeys, can they take it? Or does that split second where it’s supposedly face down make that impossible?)

    The ones that are “permanently” face up would work the same as if you’d picked it up by exploring an island while your ship was already full. The immediate reveal would avoid the cargo limit issue, and you’d take it on board normally.

    Can an opponent request or force you to reveal face down crew on a setup with a reducer to prove that it’s legal?

    If you need the reducer’s ability to make the ship legal during setup, you have to reveal it during setup. That ability won’t function if it’s face down.

    I know the reducers have to be face up; my question was if you had to reveal OTHER crew that the reducer is allowing aboard, to prove that the setup is legal. Ex: The Stump is face up as he has to be. He allows a bunch of extra crew aboard. An opponent wants to check the crew on my ship to prove the setup is legal. Am I required to reveal the rest of the setup (in addition to The Stump) to prove I’m not cheating?

    If it’s a question of cheating, intentional or otherwise, that’s not an issue unique to reducers. Whether there’s a reducer involved or not, anyone could claim their starting setup was legal.

    If it’s a concern, that’s where it might become necessary to bring in an impartial third party (or the classic “Privateer running the event”) to verify that it’s legal. If that’s not an option for whatever reason, short of everyone revealing everything at the start, the only real way to verify it was legal is checking things after the fact, either when the game ends, or during the game if enough stuff has been revealed naturally to know for sure.

    Given the age of this game, and the size of the remaining community of players, I’d like to think that at least purposeful cheating at it is a non-issue at this point. Maybe not?

    it does prevent a whole pile of weird issues with certain ability interactions and timing.

    Interesting, I haven’t thought of those possibilities then.

    There were several others that came up over the years that escape my memory, but the most significant scenario was when a ship with an S in its printed base move plus a Helmsman aboard moved within range of a canceler.

    Before that ruling/clarification was put in place, people could try to argue that they’d used the Helmsman’s segment as their first segment, so by the time the ship moved in range of the canceler, targeting that Helmsman wouldn’t have an effect on the rest of the ship’s movement even though there was an entire S still waiting to be used.

    #11537
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Given the age of this game, I’d like to think that at least purposeful cheating at it is a non-issue at this point. Maybe not?

    Definitely not!  XD

    I was asking for CG4.  I double checked a couple of the new 10 master setups to make sure they’re fine, but I might just reveal at least one of them in the next battle report anyway, partly for kicks and also for intimidation purposes.  XD

    #11538
    Randy
    Moderator

    <span style=”color: #000000; font-family: ‘Helvetica Neue’, Helvetica, Arial, ‘Lucida Grande’, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;”>Interesting, I haven’t thought of those possibilities then.</span>

    I have a decent example. I had a game come down to the last two or three turns. Game winning treasure on a ship heading home. Fleet that was in the lead, had but one small two master still able to move, but can do nothing to stop the opposing ship from returning home and taking the lead. The two masted ship attempts to suicide (to force the end of the game) as the treasure ship is heading to unload. As the ship passes an enemy derelict, that still possessed a canceler, their helmsman was cancelled. This was enough to keep the enemy ship from docking and unloading just before the two master could take another action through a whirlpool, to have a chance to end the game that turn. I’m not sure if this is tracking the way I am describing it, but it was epic. At any rate, the key in this moment was that the helmsman’s S had not been used at the point that it crossed within S of the cancelling ship, so it couldn’t make it home that turn.

    #11539
    Randy
    Moderator

    Hahaha looks like Woelf addressed my exact situation before I responded!!! Nice!!!

    #11546
    Jack
    Participant

    Here’s a pretty silly one that came up last night. Can you touch another ship without becoming pinned? Obviously you can with ships with certain abilities like galley, but for a ship that doesn’t have an ability like that, is it legal/possible to move your ship so the sides touch before the bow does? I keep having an issue with a Spanish fleet where L’Aguila just gets stuck after ramming a pirate ship.

    #11563
    Bartek
    Participant

    Quick question after Reading all FAQ etc, just to be sure:

    Recently I aquired the Abomination.

    Mast cannons: 3L-3S-3S-3L

    Ship’s plate cannons: 3S-3L-3L-3S

    I use the ones printed on masts in this case right?

     

    #11569
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Will Holy Water/Davy Jones Heart protect a ship from UT abilities?

    #11619
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Here’s a pretty silly one that came up last night. Can you touch another ship without becoming pinned? Obviously you can with ships with certain abilities like galley, but for a ship that doesn’t have an ability like that, is it legal/possible to move your ship so the sides touch before the bow does? I keep having an issue with a Spanish fleet where L’Aguila just gets stuck after ramming a pirate ship.

    Yes, definitely legal. Most ships are wider around the middle, so as long as that part makes contact before the bow, you’ll be touching without becoming pinned (or being able to ram).

    It’s a little more difficult with junks because of their flat sides, but not impossible.

    #11620
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Quick question after Reading all FAQ etc, just to be sure:
    Recently I aquired the Abomination.
    Mast cannons: 3L-3S-3S-3L
    Ship’s plate cannons: 3S-3L-3L-3S
    I use the ones printed on masts in this case right?

    Correct!
    The cannons are all there, just listed out of order, so you use what’s shown on the masts.

    #11621
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Will Holy Water/Davy Jones Heart protect a ship from UT abilities?

    It’ll protect the ship from UTs on opposing ships that target your ship directly.
    It won’t protect against UT effects when they’re loaded from a wild island, and it doesn’t protect itself from UTs that can remove other UTs.

    The entry in the Pirate Code (top of page 49) goes into finer details about this one. It’s a little messy.

    #11738
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    How does Homemade Flag interact with ships that have Extended Range? The code ruling is unclear to me.

    #11740
    Ben
    Keymaster

    @Woelf:

    If I have an ability that moves an enemy ship (like an L-mover on a 5-6), how does the timing of d6 rolls work with sargasso seas when forcing a ship onto one of them?  Do I roll for the ship and that rating stays for my opponent’s next turn?  Or do (only) they roll once it comes back around to them?  If the latter, it must be assumed that the ship is tangled?

    Did Wizkids mess up the ability text for Jailhouse Dog?  It says “you CAN load this treasure face down” (emphasis added of course).  In that case, what’s to stop me from loading it face up and having it not take up cargo space?

    Can players choose UT’s for Pandora’s Box that cannot be loaded?  If the ship is full and face down UT’s are selected, are they tossed out?

    How does “chaining” Pandora’s Boxes work?  If Pandora’s Box brings in another Pandora’s Box, can you get multiple UT’s from each player? (If you had a TON of copies of it, you could just “infinite loop” the UT and hand out UT’s like it’s Christmas morning lol)

    #11741
    Jack
    Participant

    …do face down UTs still count for a cargo space?

    #11749
    Ben
    Keymaster

    …do face down UTs still count for a cargo space?

    Yes indeed!

    #11840
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @xerecs

    How does Homemade Flag interact with ships that have Extended Range? The code ruling is unclear to me.

    The range reduction is applied after everything else that modifies range, so Extended Range won’t let you bypass it.

    I like how it works thematically.  The fake flag works just well enough that enemy ships need to get in close to make sure they’re not firing on a friendly ship.

    #11841
    Woelf
    Moderator

    @Ben

    If I have an ability that moves an enemy ship (like an L-mover on a 5-6), how does the timing of d6 rolls work with sargasso seas when forcing a ship onto one of them?  Do I roll for the ship and that rating stays for my opponent’s next turn?  Or do (only) they roll once it comes back around to them?  If the latter, it must be assumed that the ship is tangled?

    The wording for Sargasso Seas gets a little weird when ships are being moved on opposing turns, but the rating is meant to apply only until the end of current turn when the ship is actually moving, not until the end of its owner’s next turn (which could be several individual player turns in a large game).

    Did Wizkids mess up the ability text for Jailhouse Dog?  It says “you CAN load this treasure face down” (emphasis added of course).  In that case, what’s to stop me from loading it face up and having it not take up cargo space?

    The ability applies when it’s revealed, so that just gives you the option to use it immediately when found or to save it.   If you do want to save it for later, you have to load it face down.

    Can players choose UT’s for Pandora’s Box that cannot be loaded?  If the ship is full and face down UT’s are selected, are they tossed out?

    How does “chaining” Pandora’s Boxes work?  If Pandora’s Box brings in another Pandora’s Box, can you get multiple UT’s from each player? (If you had a TON of copies of it, you could just “infinite loop” the UT and hand out UT’s like it’s Christmas morning lol)

    It’s not strictly forbidden to pull another box from the box, but each time you do you’re going to get loaded up with more and more negative things from opposing players, and you’ll still only end up getting one non-box UT for yourself at the end, whenever you finally stop.  It’s also safe to assume that if it gets out of control, at some point a Kharmic Idol/Pirata Codex will get tossed in there to shut the whole thing down.

    All of the UTs gained are treated as if they were on the island when it was first explored, so any that can’t be loaded (regardless of the reason) go on the island.

     

    #11893
    Ben
    Keymaster

    @Woelf: Is the Amity from CC supposed to be a common?  She is on the cards but the spreadsheet(s) list her as uncommon, which is normal for her ship type.

    #11903
    Woelf
    Moderator

     Is the Amity from CC supposed to be a common?  She is on the cards but the spreadsheet(s) list her as uncommon, which is normal for her ship type.

    The data and ship type both point to it being uncommon, so you can assume that’s what it was supposed to be.    I don’t have the physical cards handy to check, but if that has a red corner, it was probably a misprint.

    I don’t know if anyone has ever compiled a list of items with misprinted rarities, but if there is one, you can add Amity to that list.

    #11923
    Randy
    Moderator

    Sorry if this one has been answered to death, but I didn’t see any references to this specifically. It has been discussed that Wizkids’ handling of Sea Creature and Monster rules are slightly vague. We have also determined that Sea Monsters/Titans are granted the ability to ram and board by their keyword which overrides the Sea Creature rules. The Code, nor the keyword ever give permission for a Sea Monster TO BE rammed. So, can a Sea Monster or Titan BE rammed? Again, I’m sorry if I missed this answer somewhere, but I did look!!! 🙂

    #11933
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Sorry if this one has been answered to death, but I didn’t see any references to this specifically. It has been discussed that Wizkids’ handling of Sea Creature and Monster rules are slightly vague. We have also determined that Sea Monsters/Titans are granted the ability to ram and board by their keyword which overrides the Sea Creature rules. The Code, nor the keyword ever give permission for a Sea Monster TO BE rammed. So, can a Sea Monster or Titan BE rammed? Again, I’m sorry if I missed this answer somewhere, but I did look!!! ?

    It’s not so much that the rules are vague, but that different bits of it are scattered all over the place, and every creature’s keyword changes those rules in different ways.  It could have been made a lot less complicated.

    To answer your question, those keywords do allow them to ram other ships, but they do NOT allow other ships to ram them.

    #11935
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Can you play events against ships that are lost inside of a fog bank?

    #11936
    Jack
    Participant

    Does “on the turn this ship is pinned, eliminate one crew and one mast from the enemy ship” ability (El Villalobos, Beast’s Belly) stack with my Spanish Main ability to eliminate just a crew on the turn my ship is pinned?

    Also, does this apply only on the initial turn, or is it that if the rammed ship does not leave and I’m pinned still next turn, it goes off again?

    #11937
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Can you play events against ships that are lost inside of a fog bank?

    That depends on the Event.

    If it targets the ship or its crew directly, it’ll work.  Mermaids or Duel, for example.

    If it targets an area or something within a range of the Event token, it will not.  Becalmed, Cursed Zone, and Foul Winds, for example.

    Rolling Fog affects the fog bank, so any ship inside will drift along with it until it’s given a move action to leave.

     

    #11938
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Does “on the turn this ship is pinned, eliminate one crew and one mast from the enemy ship” ability (El Villalobos, Beast’s Belly) stack with my Spanish Main ability to eliminate just a crew on the turn my ship is pinned?

    Also, does this apply only on the initial turn, or is it that if the rammed ship does not leave and I’m pinned still next turn, it goes off again?

    Those abilities are just different enough that they can be combined.

    The effect applies only once, when the ship first becomes pinned.   You don’t get any extra benefit if the ship remains pinned.

    #11940
    Ochobrazo2298
    Participant

    Could a Ghost Ship tow a Flotilla?

    And would Poseidon’s Breath blow off one of a turtle ship’s shell panels instead of it’s mast?

    Also if there is a captain of say the USS Stephens would that not be bad if there are a bunch of S-Cancelers in the game?

    And also(This is the last thing) on the same note of S-Cancelers, if you have an S-Canceler on your boat can you cancel the ability of that boat or a crew onboard?

    #11942
    Jack
    Participant

    I know the answer for the canceller questions:

    S-cancellers extend out from the ship they’re on, they do not include their own ship. A captain does not help on the USS Stephens because the no stacking rule still applies, the backup Captain still can not use its ability.

    #11959
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Would the ability of The Kraken and Kray-Kin be considered a direct ability affect or an indirect ability affect, when in the same game as Holy Water/ Davy Jones Heart?

    In other words, would the heart/water protect the ship it is on from their abilities? I’m led to believe that it can, but would like some clarification.

    #12005
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Could a Ghost Ship tow a Flotilla?

    Yes, but it would have to leave “Ghostly” turned off while doing it.

    And would Poseidon’s Breath blow off one of a turtle ship’s shell panels instead of it’s mast?

    No, PB removes the mast directly.   It doesn’t cause a “hit”, so it ignores the panels.

    Also if there is a captain of say the USS Stephens would that not be bad if there are a bunch of S-Cancelers in the game?

    And also(This is the last thing) on the same note of S-Cancelers, if you have an S-Canceler on your boat can you cancel the ability of that boat or a crew onboard?

    Jack is correct about these.   Even though the sources are different, the Captain’s ability and the ability of USS Stephens are the same, so the no-stacking rule still applies.   Redundancy only helps if they’re different.    Cancelers can only target abilities on other ships, not their own.

    #12006
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Would the ability of The Kraken and Kray-Kin be considered a direct ability affect or an indirect ability affect, when in the same game as Holy Water/ Davy Jones Heart?

    In other words, would the heart/water protect the ship it is on from their abilities? I’m led to believe that it can, but would like some clarification.

    Those do affect crew directly, so Holy Water/DJ’s Heart will protect a ship (and its crew) from them.

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