Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #12131
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Can a crew with the Sac ability successfully eliminate themselves to give their ship an extra action?

    #12136
    Ochobrazo2298
    Participant

    That’s what I do with Mercer!

    😀

    #12144
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Can a crew with the Sac ability successfully eliminate themselves to give their ship an extra action?

    Nope!   You would lose the source of the ability the instant it’s eliminated, which would also immediately take away the extra action it tried to generate.   Because you can’t gain an extra action that way, you can’t make the elimination at all.

    It’s an extension of the existing rule that prevents you from targeting other crew that cannot be permanently eliminated because something else is protecting them or because they’d return immediately.  You can’t target those for the sole purpose of “eliminating” them even knowing ahead of time you won’t get the the action.

    #12180
    Xuansho
    Participant

     

    If you ram a ship and make it derelict (wether it’s caused by the ram or the shoot action granted by a captain) you can’t board it anymore right ?

    I think I’ve already saw the question asked in a previous topic but I can’t seem to find it.

    #12187
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If you ram a ship and make it derelict (wether it’s caused by the ram or the shoot action granted by a captain) you can’t board it anymore right ?

    I think I’ve already saw the question asked in a previous topic but I can’t seem to find it.

    Yes, you can still board a derelict.   The owner of the derelict won’t have any masts to add to their die roll, but otherwise it works just like normal.

    You can even ram & board a ship that was already derelict beforehand.  The ram just won’t cause any damage, because that only eliminates masts.

    #12273
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Is Calypso’s ability supposed to be mandatory?

    At the beginning of each of your turns, roll a d6. On a result of 4-6, instead of giving this ship an action, choose two whirlpools from outside the game. Put one L away from this ship and one L away from a wild island. Neither can be placed so that it touches any island or ship. This ship does not have to roll for effect when she uses a whirlpool.

    #12298
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Is Calypso’s ability supposed to be mandatory?

    At the beginning of each of your turns, roll a d6. On a result of 4-6, instead of giving this ship an action, choose two whirlpools from outside the game. Put one L away from this ship and one L away from a wild island. Neither can be placed so that it touches any island or ship. This ship does not have to roll for effect when she uses a whirlpool.

    The way it’s worded, technically yes, because it doesn’t give you a “may”, “can” or anything else that would imply that it’s optional.   Thematically, it kinda fits that way with her going crazy at that point in the movie.

    However, I wouldn’t fault anyone for choosing to not make the roll every single turn.  After a few turns of placing whirlpools that effect can quickly become far more annoying than it is useful.  It also limits how often her ship can do anything, and makes it too unreliable for anything really important.

    #12338
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Becalmed affects native canoes normally, correct?

    Reveal this event at the beginning of one of your turns and place its token anywhere on the play area (except on an island or a ship). No ship within L of the token may be given a move action unless she can move when derelict. Remove Becalmed from the game at the beginning of your next turn.

    Also, can titans move over or on top of forts?  The keyword just says they can move over islands.  If they can, would there be any difference if the fort was friendly or not?

    #12387
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Becalmed will affect canoes normally, because they cannot move while derelict. The fact that they cannot become derelict is incidental.

    Forts do not block movement of Titans, so they can pass over regardless of ownership. However, they cannot stop over an opposing fort, because that would dock it at the island, which cannot be done at an opposing fort.

    #12429
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I guess I already know the answer, but Titans can’t repair right?

    The Titan keyword allows them to be assigned crew, and explicitly allows them to explore.  However, not to repair.

    From the Code:

    -This list applies only when two or more abilities conflict. When an ability and a rule conflict the ability always takes precedence regardless of the terms used, unless specifically stated otherwise.

    Sea creature rules say they can only be given move and shoot actions.

    “A titan can be assigned crew.”  – an ability!

    #12458
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I guess I already know the answer, but Titans can’t repair right?

    Correct.   You can legally assign a shipwright to one, but those don’t grant the ability to take repair actions, they only change where you can give that standard action.   Sea creatures can’t be given one at all, so the SW doesn’t help.

    Your only ways to repair one is with that weird set of canoes that technically don’t exist (RtSS), or with Trees (UT), which is always an amusing visual to think about thematically.

    #12806
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Tiny nitpick: The PC has “This ship can shoot at submerged ships within S” with the “of her.” part at the end of the ability text.

    #12820
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Just to confirm, the “must begin the game S away from its home island” part of Mercenary does not require you to have the bow of the ship pointing at the home island?

    Edit: Another little confirmation item.  When a ship rolls a 1-2 to get an additional fire mast, I assume you don’t have to roll for that fire mast right away?  (I would think not until the next action)

    #12881
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Tiny nitpick: The PC has “This ship can shoot at submerged ships within S” with the “of her.” part at the end of the ability text.

    I don’t know when or if there will ever need to be another update to the PC, but it’s noted in my master copy, so if a new release ever is needed, that’ll be covered.

    Just to confirm, the “must begin the game S away from its home island” part of Mercenary does not require you to have the bow of the ship pointing at the home island?

    Correct.  As long as the ship is the right distance away, you can orient it however you like.   With some ships (especially 10-masters), that can put the bow a substantial distance away.

    Edit: Another little confirmation item.  When a ship rolls a 1-2 to get an additional fire mast, I assume you don’t have to roll for that fire mast right away?  (I would think not until the next action)

    Correct.  You only have to roll for the masts that were present when you first started rolling.

    A single (starting) fire mast can’t take out an entire otherwise-healthy ship in a single turn with a string of bad rolls.

    #12883
    Kyle
    Participant

    Hello all,

    Got a couple of questions about the Fog-Hopping ability, which I was not able to find in the forums already.  So apologies if I am repeating something.

    Q1) A Fog-Hopper moved into an opponents ‘Smoke/Fog’, which is removed at the beginning of the opponents turn. When is the decision to use the ability chosen?  This is a timing issue, as since the ship is not being given a move action the ability wouldn’t be triggered.  But can the ship still stay in the fog/ether as per the owners choice?  Is it forced out since it’s the opponents turn?

    Q2) Davy Jones (DJC) copies the Fog-Hopping ability and moved into a fog. Since his ability is reset on the next turn, can the ability be recopied and ‘hop’ out of another fog with a move action? Does the ability need to be recopied or is it carried over from the last turn?

    #12915
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Q1) A Fog-Hopper moved into an opponents ‘Smoke/Fog’, which is removed at the beginning of the opponents turn. When is the decision to use the ability chosen? This is a timing issue, as since the ship is not being given a move action the ability wouldn’t be triggered. But can the ship still stay in the fog/ether as per the owners choice? Is it forced out since it’s the opponents turn?

    This is a timing issue, but it does have a resolution.  It either needs to pop out immediately when the smoke/fog is removed, or it will have to exit from a different one during its next turn.

    Here’s the relevant entry from the Pirate Code:

    • This ability may be used with a fog bank created by a smokepot specialist/shot as either an entry or exit point, even if there are no other “permanent” fog banks in play.
      • When the fog bank is removed at the beginning of your turn, you may choose to roll and place this ship immediately (per normal the rules for smokepots) or you may choose to have it remain “inside” the fog. If it remains in the fog, the ship must exit another fog bank before the end of your turn; if it does not exit, it is removed from the game instead.

     

     

    ———————————————————————————————–

     

     

    Q2) Davy Jones (DJC) copies the Fog-Hopping ability and moved into a fog. Since his ability is reset on the next turn, can the ability be recopied and ‘hop’ out of another fog with a move action? Does the ability need to be recopied or is it carried over from the last turn?

    Copied abilities generally do not carry over, so he would have to copy it again to exit from a different fog bank.   If he doesn’t use it on that next turn, he can only exit from the fog bank he started in.

    #12916
    Ben
    Keymaster

    ^Great questions, and the answer to the first brings up another one.

    This is a timing issue, but it does have a resolution.  It either needs to pop out immediately when the smoke/fog is removed, or it will have to exit from a different one during its next turn.

    I can think of an additional timing issue.  I feel like this could potentially be finagled to essentially remove a ship from play to make it immune.  What if Davy Jones copies the Fog Hopper ability and moves into an enemy smoke bank.  They remove it, and the player says they’ll choose the second option, “it will have to exit from a different one during its next turn.”  However, the player doesn’t copy the Fog Hopper ability again, they copy something else.  Now the ship is “gone” with no fog to hop out of….  (especially if there is no other fog banks in play and perhaps the smokepot specialist is killed/etc)

    Even if this doesn’t work, I feel like there’s some variation of this that could be used in a big multiplayer game to “ghost” a ship out of play for most of a round.  Ex: Player 1 lays down a smoke bank.  Player 8 (last in the turn order) moves in with a Fog Hopper.  Then it’s back to Player 1, who removes it.  Where is Player 8’s ship until their turn comes up?  Can players 2-7 target the ship (with a Copier for example) as if it was still in fog somewhere?

    #12918
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I can think of an additional timing issue. I feel like this could potentially be finagled to essentially remove a ship from play to make it immune. What if Davy Jones copies the Fog Hopper ability and moves into an enemy smoke bank. They remove it, and the player says they’ll choose the second option, “it will have to exit from a different one during its next turn.” However, the player doesn’t copy the Fog Hopper ability again, they copy something else. Now the ship is “gone” with no fog to hop out of…. (especially if there is no other fog banks in play and perhaps the smokepot specialist is killed/etc)

    In that situation, the player with DJ has to make a choice:

    Copy the fog-hopping ability, then move out of some other fog bank during their turn.

    -OR-

    Don’t copy it (or copy something else), and the ship plus all of its cargo is immediately removed from the game.

     

    It’s essentially the same situation you could get into when using a standard fog-hopper without any permanent fog banks in play.  If it loses its entry point and can’t find another way out, it’s gone permanently.   Lost forever in whatever parallel dimension fog-hoppers use to travel from place to place, where even Captain Jack Sparrow won’t be able to find it.

     

    Even if this doesn’t work, I feel like there’s some variation of this that could be used in a big multiplayer game to “ghost” a ship out of play for most of a round. Ex: Player 1 lays down a smoke bank. Player 8 (last in the turn order) moves in with a Fog Hopper. Then it’s back to Player 1, who removes it. Where is Player 8’s ship until their turn comes up? Can players 2-7 target the ship (with a Copier for example) as if it was still in fog somewhere?

    The ship and its crew are still considered in play, at least until the owning player’s turn, so until then they can still be copied or targeted by other things that can affect ships in fog.   When it gets back to the owner’s turn, it either has to reappear somewhere or it gets removed from the game (see above).

    #12959
    Ben
    Keymaster

    1. Can Maps of Hades be used to break a tow? (ex: a Galley with the Maps that gets an action from an enemy player)

    2. If Spices and Smuggled Goods are applied to the same 5 coin, does the player end up with 15 or 20 gold on their home island? (doubled twice or separately)

    3. Can a player trigger the “no future move actions” endgame condition by putting a dismasted 1 masted galley (or a 1 master with an Oarsman) in a sargasso sea (since they cannot roll higher than the required 6) IF another player has an L-mover like George Washington LeBeaux in their fleet?  It seems the answer would be no, because the L mover can result in future move actions (from the ship’s actual owner) to the ship that is stuck.

    4. Condition for building a fort:

    –You must have at least one ship of the same nationality as the fort in your fleet.

    Does that apply only to the fleet starting the game, or does it apply throughout the game, potentially eliminating forts you could build if certain game pieces are eliminated or removed?

    #13001
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I just skimmed through the battle report where these came up. Interesting ending!

    1. Can Maps of Hades be used to break a tow? (ex: a Galley with the Maps that gets an action from an enemy player)

    Yes. Abilities that move other ships (as opposed to giving move actions) can break a tow by moving either ship involved.

    2. If Spices and Smuggled Goods are applied to the same 5 coin, does the player end up with 15 or 20 gold on their home island? (doubled twice or separately)

    Even though their text is slightly different (one vs. lowest), I think the no-stacking rule should really be applied.

    HOWEVER, as written, you can choose to apply both, in any order, and using previously-established precedents for range-doublers, you can double it twice.    A 5 becomes 10, then doubles again to 20.

    3. Can a player trigger the “no future move actions” endgame condition by putting a dismasted 1 masted galley (or a 1 master with an Oarsman) in a sargasso sea (since they cannot roll higher than the required 6) IF another player has an L-mover like George Washington LeBeaux in their fleet? It seems the answer would be no, because the L mover can result in future move actions (from the ship’s actual owner) to the ship that is stuck.

    The “no future move actions” rule is not contingent upon any actions or abilities of opposing players, so once the ship became “permanently” stuck in a Sargasso, it could potentially trigger that endgame condition.    An L-Mover could delay that by pulling it out before that player’s turn, but if it’s still stuck when that player’s turn starts, the game ends.

    4. Condition for building a fort:

    –You must have at least one ship of the same nationality as the fort in your fleet.

    Does that apply only to the fleet starting the game, or does it apply throughout the game, potentially eliminating forts you could build if certain game pieces are eliminated or removed?

    The nationality check is applied when the fort is built, so losing all ships of a specific nation will cut off access to the forts of that nation.    On the other hand, capturing ships from some other opposing nation will technically grant you access to the forts of that nation.

    #13034
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I just skimmed through the battle report where these came up. Interesting ending!

    No kidding!  It was one of my favorite games I’ve been involved in.  Interesting answers too, I didn’t expect many of those to go that way.  The fort building thing is kinda wild and may have slightly affected some T2 games back then.

    Got another one: An enemy derelict (HI raider) is docked at a player’s home island.  Can the player simultaneously tow (+capture) the enemy ship and dock home at the same time, triggering the automatic docking of the derelict?

    #13037
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The fort building thing is kinda wild and may have slightly affected some T2 games back then.

    I think the spirit of the rule is that you’d have any forts you might build included with and limited by your starting fleet, as if you were taking only that fleet to a gaming event of some sort, and you’d have those available for the duration of the game regardless of what happened to the rest of your fleet.  This would be opposed to the reality these days, where you can have your entire collection available, and in the case of VASSAL and/or physical mock-ups, access to literally every piece ever made.

    Of course, that’s not how the rules for forts are actually written.

    Got another one: An enemy derelict (HI raider) is docked at a player’s home island. Can the player simultaneously tow (+capture) the enemy ship and dock home at the same time, triggering the automatic docking of the derelict?

    The “move to touch one thing at a time” rule would apply here, so the ship would have to touch/tow the derelict with one move action, then use another to dock.

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