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If an L-mover forces a ship onto a whirlpool, which player decides if that ship goes through and where it ends up? (the moving player or the original controller?)
“Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move an enemy ship L in any direction.”
The ship’s current owner (not mover) chooses if the whirlpool activates, where the ship goes, and what falls out on the way.
From looking through the edit history and comparing versions, I can kind of understand why they keep chopping it down. There is a TON of very useful information in the full version, but quite a bit of it goes way beyond (and into far more detail) than what Wikipedia is generally meant to do. Those pages are usually meant to be just a quick overview of the topic, with links to the actual sources.
All of those details on set history, promos, and other specific items are much better suited for your website right here, rather than over there, so I’m glad you saved as much of it as you could and posted it.
Can a 0 coin become negative in value (-1) due to the Rats UT?
No, non-unique treasures cannot be reduced below zero by other effects.
A [custom] UT could give itself a negative value, but it would have to explicitly say so.
ADDED: I couldn’t find a specific reference to this in the PC, but know it’s been ruled on in the past, so I’ll add it to my list of stuff to include in the future (maybe) update.
Given these, would dropping her point cost from 20 to say….. 17 be ideal? Or would modifying the ability to work while docked at a friendly fort be more interesting?
Modifying it to be used at a friendly fort would work, and/or you could modify it to work within S of home.
You should avoid reducing the cost of an item to negate having a “useless” ability, because that can run into issues where players go out of their way to make it useful, and later on it can create problems if used as an example when pricing other stuff (look at how much Fear varies in the later sets). Even combo discounts should be avoided when possible, because those always make it harder to keep track of the actual cost of an ability.
The obvious ones are the ones I envisioned when writing the ability, as-is I think it would allow the Cutlass to target submerged ships, but wouldn’t allow for a boarding against a Ghostly Ship. I’ll likely try and modify the ability, something like: This ship can always eliminate masts from a target.
Something like, “This ship ignores defensive abilities that prevent masts from being eliminated when hit” would let it work against the two masts ability, ignores first hit, turtles, and catamarans, but it wouldn’t work on submerged ships or unshootable within S because those prevent the ship from being targeted in the first place. You’d have to expand it out to cover those as well, but then you’re running back into the issue above (or overlapping with other, existing abilities like depth charges and cancelers).
Hydra’s cannon-generating ability will be nearly impossible to use because you’ll need to go out of your way to have a canceller stationed nearby to actually dock the ship.
It is absolutely a combo I could see WK putting together, requiring a complex explanation or even an exception for it carved out in the PC, like putting Broadsides Attack on a schooner (pre-redesign), or Eternal on a sea creature.
Cutlass looks like a good specialty ship. Defining “defensive abilities” could get a little ugly, especially with the introduction of new custom abilities. For example, could that ability itself be cancelled? If not, could the ship’s ability shut down an enemy canceller if the canceller was trying to cancel the ship’s Captain?
I agree, the term “defensive abilities” is too generic and would need to be very clearly defined somewhere.
“Two hits to eliminate a mast”, “ignores the first hit”, can’t be shot within S, or things like turtle shell panels and outriggers are obvious enough, but there are lots of others out there that would rely heavily on interpretation. Cancelers can be used defensively, but aren’t strictly defensive. What about submerged, Ghost Ship, +1 to boarding, Flotilla, Eternal, or even something like Secret Hold?
What stops someone from using Runes of Loki or Potions and Brews to cause a ship to effectively become unshootable similarly if Nemo’s Plans lets you continue using the one-use items face up and ignores the revealing?
Those are normally revealed voluntarily, without being activated by any specific action, so Nemo’s Plans can only re-trigger them once per turn. They also only apply to a single die/dice roll at a time.
The same doesn’t work with Parley because even if it’s activated only once, the protective effect of it still lasts for the entire rest of the turn. To make that UT work better without breaking things completely, the Parley effect would have to be limited to only that specific shoot action.
Willy’s Eye Patch
Unique Treasure
Ability: Load this treasure facedown. On any turn, you may turn Willy’s Eye Patch face up to give this ship a Parley action without requiring the use of a treasure coin. If you do, remove Willy’s Eye Patch from the game.If the flipping over is part of the cost would that mean Nemo’s Plans resets it to use again or just allows it to be retained (face up) until another ship or item/event could reset it properly?
IF I am reading the Code right, the Eyepatch would stay face-up on the ship, but could be used again. I may be wrong though. Either way the Plans are a fringe scenario anyway, I don’t think you’re likely to encounter them often in a regular game so the Eyepatch is fine as is.
As written, if used with Nemo’s Plans, it would remain face up but could be reused any time the ship gets shot at because that’s what triggers Parley.
That combo is game-breaking, because effectively makes the ship unshootable. Parley is already very powerful because lasts for the entire turn (not just that shoot action), but this takes away the balancing factor of giving your gold to your opponent.
(Ben) Interesting, I didn’t know about that part. I could ask Piranha if he remembers any direction from Wizkids about it.
I’m not so sure it should override the 0-point crew rule, since it doesn’t indicate that it’s supposed to. To me any rules updates at this point in the game’s life should be edits, not additions.
(Captain V) It sounds to me like that would be an edit, rather than an addition. Rules as intended, rather than rules as written.
I agree that it would have to be considered an edit (technically more of a reversion) at this point, but that’s why it would be better addressed in the PC than through an update to the MKL.
What I’m most curious about is how often it was actually relevant in games, and when/if it did occur, how various different players/groups handled it.
I still have vague memories of the game from before the addition of the 0-point rule, where the quickest way to cash in a Random crew was to have the captured derelict explore to transfer them over to your attacking ship. But, for anyone that came into the game after that 0-point rule was already locked in (the majority or remaining players, I think) might have never even considered the possibility.
I think the flaw lies in the wording of the Ransom keyword. It should specify that when the ability kicks in, it also disables the 0-point crew rule. It says “its other abilities cease to function”, but makes no mention of essentially cancelling the 0-point crew rule. I understand that abilities override rules, but the Ransom ability specifically refers to other abilities and doesn’t include any rule overrides. Thus, based on what I’m reading, the 0-point crew rule still has to apply.
The root of the issue is that Ransom was introduced in Crimson Coast, while the 0-Point rule was added later in Revolution, but Ransom was never updated to address it directly.
As written it technically doesn’t override that rule, but based on how it initially worked, I’ve always assumed that once triggered Ransom would disable that rule along with whatever other abilities that crew had. Without that, your options for getting the max value out of Ransom are pretty limited: you either need to drag the captured ship home (or at least to somewhere it can repair), or you need to get lucky and happen to already have a ship with a matching nationality in your fleet.
I don’t know if it’s necessary to update the MKL just for that, but I’m definitely adding it to my notes for the potential PC update.
Just to confirm: If you capture an enemy ship that has a Ransom crew on it, and the two ships are of different nationalities, you cannot transfer the Ransom crew to the towing ship due to the rule that 0-point crew can only be assigned to ships of their own nationality?
Ransom activates as soon as the ship is captured. It doesn’t explicitly disable the 0-point rule, but that’s implied, because otherwise it largely defeats the purpose of Ransom. You CAN transfer the captured Ransom crew to other ships in your fleet, regardless of nationality, but the only island you can unload it to is your home island. (I’ll add a note to my markups to cover this more clearly.)
Why does the Pirate Code make an exception to the above 0-point crew assignment rule for Captain Nemo’s “shanghai” ability? (an ability which says specifically “captive becomes assigned to this ship”)
Those two abilities don’t mesh together particularly well. I don’t recall the exact reasons for why the interaction was handled that way, but it would allow Nemo’s ability to function in full while keeping Ransom (plus whatever other abilities the Ransom crew has) mostly intact. Essentially, it’s changing the original ownership of the captured crew, even though it doesn’t directly say that.
Looking at it now, in hindsight, it probably should just count as a simple capture that triggers Ransom for the gold value. It always seemed like more of a hypothetical situation anyway, because the ship would have to be completely stripped of other crew first before Nemo could even touch it. Plus, Nemo has never really been a particularly popular crew to use, which makes the scenario that much less likely to come up in the first place. Can you remember it ever actually happening in a game?
I’ll think about that one (and would love to hear other input), but that may get changed if another update to the PC actually happens.
Do you know if “Shanghai” was the ability shorthand that Wizkids or the community used before 2011? (such as during the production years)
I don’t think the term was ever used by WK. That was just semi-thematic slang used to make it easier to distinguish from the other capture ability.
Spider Queen
Pirate
Points: 18
Masts: 3
Cannons: 2S-3L-2S
Cargo: 5
Movement: S+L
Ability: Dories. Once per turn, this ship may initiate a boarding party from within S away from an enemy ship without ramming. The boarded ship may not use any boarding bonuses. If this ship ends her turn in a fog bank, she may leave from any other fog bank in play on her next turn.Captain Nathaniel Flint
Pirate
Points: 9
Ability: Captain. Secret Hold. This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against ships that are carrying gold.27 points is a lot to put into a 3-masted ship, but you could also do a lot of really fun things with this combo.
Even without Flint… Bonny Peel with Calico Cat (SM) would be an absolute terror for any ship that strayed too close to a fog bank. 😀
Namazu and the Trident target an area rather than any ship specifically, so Parley won’t work even if it’s the only ship within that target area.
That also means that Namazu could effectively “shoot” (just not with its cannons) at ships docked at a home island, correct?
Yes! If the target area happens to overlap a ship docked at its own home island, that ship can lose masts.
The home island protection really only prevents ships from being targeted directly; it doesn’t negate damage from other sources.
If a ship has both of these abilities aboard:
-Masts on this ship cannot be eliminated by shots unless the cannon roll is a 6.
-Two hits from the same shoot action are required to eliminate one of this ship’s masts.
Does the first hit of each pair also have to be a 6, or can it be any regular hit because only the second hit would actually eliminate a mast?
The specific hit that eliminates a mast would have to be a 6, but any non-6 hits in between will still count toward the “two hits” ability as long as they’re high enough for the cannon(s) used.
Other hit-based abilities still function normally throughout too, even if the rolls aren’t high enough to actually eliminate masts.
Can Behemoth benefit from copying All-Powerful from a crew after kraken cancelling shuts down the All-Powerful ability? (Each turn roll a d6, on a result of 5 or 6 no crew abilities can be used this turn.)
Even though it’s copied from a crew, Behemoth isn’t one, so it can still use that ability normally.
Can a kraken surround a titan that is on an island? If so, do you move the titan into the kraken once the kraken is as close to the island as possible?
Short answer is no.
Longer answer is that this question has revealed an error in the Pirate Code. There’s a line under Kraken/Octopus that refers to surrounding docked ships (the only line in green text, incidentally), but in the Master Keyword List the keyword’s text specifically states that “it cannot surround a docked ship”. That line of green text never should have been added!
Not really, I’ve envisioned it as an empty gold ship for use in larger games or campaigns. I may expand upon it in a latter set with an Assembly 2, 3, 4, and so on.
Some sort of ship synergy effect could be cool. Like links, but ship-to-ship instead of through crew. They might all be kinda crappy individually, but when you have a set of them together in a fleet they all get significantly boosted stats.
Assembly I
Nexus Alliance
Points: 9
Masts: 4
Cannons: 2L-4S-4S-2L
Cargo: 6
Movement: S
Ability: This ship cannot carry crew. This ship gets -1 to her cannon rolls when carrying treasure.Does this ship have some secret, or at least non-obvious intended purpose? It’s very inexpensive for a 4-mast ship, especially one with 6 cargo, but the base move of S with no good options to increase that really kills any usefulness for it. You could speed it up a little bit with things like trade currents or an external “any ship two actions” ability, but that only gets it up to where countless other ships in the same point range start. The cannons are okay, but with no captain and limited options (equipment only) to improve firepower, it’s not going to be particularly useful in combat either.
I love seeing custom ships with strange abilities or weird niche roles, but I’m struggling to come up with a good use for this one.
I’m not totally sure how it would work, especially with the point cost changing. The Keyword would likely need to either be re-worded or modified, or a new keyword to address what happens and cover any potential problems.
Renaming it wouldn’t hurt, just to avoid any confusion with the crew version. “Black Sails”, or “Marked”, or something else that’s Cursed-themed while keeping a vaguely similar name would be good.
For the effect itself, it would be consistent with the original BM to have it cost the same against the build total, but if you activated the keyword its own point limit would be reduced by 1 or 2.
Catching up on a few previous ones…
Bloody Fist
Ability: Mercenary. This ship cannot be given fire masts. When this ship is assigned her linked crew, she gets +S to her base move. Viking crew may use their abilities on this ship.Is this ship immune to anything that would create fire masts, or do those simply eliminate the masts instead?
Warp
Points: 20
Ability: Clipper Ship. Black Mark. Once per turn, one crew or ship within S of this ship cannot use its ability this turn.What’s your intention on how Black Mark works when built into a ship? WK never addressed that, because it was only designed for use on crew. Does it alter the ship’s cost, and how is that counted toward its point limit and/or the build total?
Brute
Ability: Forts cannot hit this ship. This ship cannot be the first ship to explore an island. This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls when she carries treasure.Does the explore restriction apply only to ships in your own fleet, or does any player exploring the island count?
How to use Double Shot….
Once per turn when this ship is given a shoot action, one of her cannons can shoot a double shot. Declare which cannon will shoot the double shot before rolling the d6. If it hits, the cannon can shoot again. If either cannon roll is a 1, remove Double Shot from the game and eliminate a mast from this ship.
I assume it would be best to use it on the most accurate cannon available, but only at the end of the shoot action. That way, you have the best chance of hitting in order to get the second shot, but if it backfires, you can just eliminate a mast that has already shot (therefore not needlessly losing that shot).
Of course, that assumes positioning and targets that would allow you to do such a thing – sometimes it might be more optimal to shoot at different targets at the beginning vs. end of the action, or you may only have the most accurate cannons in range of something you’d prefer to hit later in the action vs. right away. Though I think those considerations are more fringe cases than anything else.
It makes the most sense to use your most accurate cannon, to increase the chance of getting the extra shot.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be your last cannon, but just make sure it’s not the first (if possible), so you always have a “used” one you can eliminate instead of losing an upcoming shot.
I’ve always felt double shot was most useful on smaller ships because of the much greater relative increase in firepower. One extra shot when you’re already firing 5, 6, or even 10 doesn’t add much, but an extra shot when you’ve only got one or two cannons in the first place is a significant upgrade. The same goes for Musketeers, Cannoneers, or anything else that gives you bonus shots, rerolls, or do-overs on cannons.
If a ship with only fire masts is wrecked on a reef, does the ship stay in play with the fire masts still there (permanently until game end), or does the automatic scuttle still happen and take her and her cargo out of play?
Becoming wrecked on a reef overrides/prevents the fire scuttle, similar to how a ship on fire can still be shot and sunk using standard cannons to trigger the normal sinking rules.
You can leave the fire masts in the wreck for the cool visual effect, but they will no longer function as fire masts once you’ve removed part of the hull.
It’s determined by the ship’s current controller, so you make the check when that player starts their turn, regardless of when the ship was actually lit on or fire or when it lost its last non-fire mast.
Because of this, couldn’t you delay (or eliminate the need for) the automatic scuttle by capturing the ship that only has fire masts? It seems the requirement to scuttle the ship on its next turn would reset every time the ship changes hands.
Yes, changing hands will delay the automatic scuttle, because it wasn’t in your fleet at the start of your turn, when the fire/scuttle check is made.
Allied players in a team game could maybe string a flaming ship along like that long enough to get it to safety, but in a normal competitive game, being captured back and forth isn’t likely to buy the ship more than an extra round or two, unless the fire goes out completely or someone manages to repair it in between.
If a switchblade blades a ship, would that count as touching that ship for the purpose of abilities like Filching Gold (Once per turn this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship she touches)?
If yes, would a Scorpion hitting a ship with it’s blade also count?
Blades hitting other ships does count as touching them, so other abilities that require touching can be used.
Filching Gold is worded as a”once per turn”, could it be used like any of the other once per turn abilities like a canceller or a spying ability?
Yes, you can use it outside of your own turn if some other player moves their ship into contact with yours. (You cannot keep reusing it if the ships are already in contact, because it says “touches” rather than “is touching” or “while touching”.)
Sorry, disregard the above. I found the actual ruling that was already established, so use this instead (from the PC):
Board
-An ability that provides an alternative boarding result (such as capturing a crew, eliminating all crew, or taking all treasure) overrides the losing player’s choice, unless the winner chooses to not use that ability.
Back to the original question: Yes, it does override the loser’s choice, and based on that previous precedent, the ability replaces the normal result (rather than applying in addition to it).
I didn’t clarify enough, or I’m reading into your answer too much heh.
Ex: Cannibal King (who has the Hoard ability) wins a boarding party against Congress. Congress has crew and treasure. Can the loser choose to just lose one crew, or does Hoard require them to lose all their treasure instead since abilities override rules? When applying Hoard or Massacre (kill all enemy crew if you win a boarding), I assume those are instead of the result the loser would normally choose? Or can they choose to lose (in the case of Hoard) crew and then get their treasure taken as well? (potentially making the abilities “in addition to” IF the loser chooses to also lose the opposite type of cargo, for example if they want to sabotage a ship just before capture)
I think I misread your question, or focused on the wrong part.
The effect of that ability is technically in addition to the normal result, so while the opposing player does get to choose between losing a crew and losing a treasure, you still get to take as much as you can carry. It’s generally going to be in their best interests to choose to lose treasure to minimize the loss, unless there’s a specific crew on the ship they really want to get rid of before you take their gold.Regardless of the “choice” made, the losing player still gets to choose which specific treasures (in order) that you take.ADDED: For timing purposes, if it becomes relevant somehow, the normal boarding result is fully resolved before Hoard gets to start grabbing treasure.ADDED 2: This does apply to other abilities triggered by boarding too, like “Massacre”, “choose two”, and the Capture abilities. They don’t replace the normal boarding result unless it specifically says they do.Does Hoard override the loser chooses rule? I think it does but couldn’t recall for sure so I played it the other way against T O’B.
The standard rule still applies, but by taking as much as you can carry you’re more likely to get to the good stuff. One of the biggest benefits of that ability is being able to take zero-space UTs that the other player would normally want to protect.
Can the Maui’s Fishhook use her ability before receiving any segments? “Once per turn as part of a move action, this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship up to S away from her.”
-Ex: First action to go through whirlpool, then second to come back through the same one. Ability was used in between to nab a coin and then flee on the same turn.
It requires a move action, but isn’t locked to any specific timing within that action, so you can use it before or after any segment.
Can the fort Thompson’s Island (+1 to cannon rolls when a ship is docked at it) benefit from a flotilla being docked at it? Essentially, can flotillas dock as a free action at islands when the towing ship docks even though they have no bow?
Despite all of the exceptions they get, Flotillas do still count as ships, and they are considered docked if placed in contact with an island.
Am I correct in saying that fog hoppers cannot use a second action to go into a fog bank on one turn and move out of a different one with the second action? “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.” Essentially next “ship’s turn” means next player’s turn, not the ship’s next action, right?
You are correct. It specifically refers to the end of turn, not individual actions.
As long as nothing else is preventing the transfer
I take it that Sea Creature rules would prevent a transfer, correct?
In general, yes, although the creature’s specific keyword can still override that.
How would an ability have to be worded to be used with Broadsides Attack?
It would have to specifically call out Broadsides Attack and state in some way that it can still be used with it. “This ability may be used with Broadsides Attack“, “When this ship uses Broadsides Attack…“, “When targeted by a Broadsides Attack…“, “When this ship succeeds at a Broadsides Attack…“, or something else along similar lines.
“At the beginning of every players turn you must roll a d6. On a 5 or 6 every ship within L of this ship loses a mast. When this ship is given a shoot action roll a d6. On a result of 1-3 every ship within S of this ship loses a mast.”
If I change the ability to the above I believe timing issues are settled, but still is problematic for multiplayer games. I’m not sure if changing the odds from a 4-6 to 5 or 6 would solve that problem. The second ability might be the way to go for the entire overall ability of the ship even though I’d rather not change it to just that.
4-6 works if that’s the only effect. With the shoot action trigger in addition, the automatic part should probably stay higher, maybe even just on a 6.
The multiplayer issue can be mostly resolved by adding something like, “This ability does not affect ships docked at their own home island.” -OR- “This ability has no effect (do not roll) if this ship is docked or has no masts.”
Hmmm, these are good points. I don’t really want to make the ability very similar to the existing damage reducing abilities (can only be hit on a 6, two hits for one mast, etc.). Would this wording be better for what I’d like the ship to do:
Each time this ship is hit, roll a d6. On a result of a 4-6 the hit is ignored instead.
I think I’ll add that it can only repair at a home island, regardless of how the first ability is changed.
Yeah, that would work well. Still very powerful, but not so much that you’d need an entire fleet of large ships (and/or cancellers) to take it down.
Doomhammer
Ability: Once per turn roll a d6. On a result of 4-6, every ship within L of this ship loses a mast.Flavor: Built with a wide beam, this vessel is capable of firing full broadsides from her port and starboard sides at the same time. However, the berserker gun crews pay little attention to friend or foe when they let the cannonballs fly.
Based on the flavor text I assume this is meant to be mandatory, so you should add a “you must” into the first sentence to make that as clear as possible. Specifying the timing might be useful too, like beginning/end of turn (if used on ALL turns), immediately before/after taking an action (if only your own turn), or tying it specifically to shoot actions (which would fit the flavor text).
Also, assuming it is mandatory, this will be problematic at the start of a game, especially if it’s rolled every player’s turn. Someone late in the order of a multiplayer game could be forced to make several rolls before getting to their first turn, but even the first player could take a bunch of unwanted damage if they couldn’t space their ships out enough immediately.
Grand Cannon
Points: 25
Ability: Every time this ship would be shot at, roll a d6. The result is the number of times this ship must be hit before masts can be eliminated.This ability was already essentially broken when WK put it on a fort. On a ship it becomes a far more serious problem because it can be combined with rerollers, a single repair action can completely negate numerous shots, and it can be copied by others.
To make it work on a ship it needs to be highly restricted, by capping the maximum damage reduction (2 or 3 at most), reducing the rolls so it only blocks damage with certain results (1-2-3 reduces that amount; nothing on a 4+), or adding some other meaningful negative to it (hits eliminate two masts, hits automatically become fire, can only repair at home, etc.).
Raising the cost more only goes so far; you can price it out of standard games, but that doesn’t do much for large/campaign games.
The above discussion about Abandoned Crew has me now wondering, if a Native Canoe finds an abandoned crew, can the canoe use the abandoned crew, seeing the crew doesn’t have a point cost?
They could carry one face down because it’s treated like treasure that way, but it cannot be face up. Individual canoes don’t have defined points cost at all, so nothing with a value can be assigned, even if it’s worth 0.
Does a ship have to have cargo space available to be transferred something that doesn’t take up cargo space? For example, if I wanted to put a unique treasure that didn’t take up cargo space on the Jikininki.
As long as nothing else is preventing the transfer, something that takes up no cargo space can be loaded onto a ship with no space remaining.
If they had cargo space, would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Dragon or Kraken/Octopus? Similar to how a Sea Monster can have equipment assigned to it.
In a related tangent, when would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Monster? Only during fleet construction and game set-up? Could you somehow transfer an equipment from a friendly ship to a friendly Sea Monster during a game?
The sea creature rules don’t prevent the use of equipment, nor do any of the keywords, so if a Dragon/Kraken had cargo space, they could carry some.
You can assign the equipment at the start of the game, you can load some while docked at an island, or you can assign it to the creature later by having some other ship explore to make the transfer.
