Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #16896
    Josh
    Participant

    If I have an opponent playing as Spain with a ship carrying Joaquin Vega, and I’m playing England with a ship carrying a crew that allows use of all nationalities crew and my own Joaquin Vega, is that a legal setup or can there be only one Joaquin Vega in the whole game?

    ALSO

    For crew abilities that state “one cargo may also be removed when this ship hits an enemy ship”, does this apply only to cargo like treasure, unique treasure etc, or does it also apply to crew since they take up cargo space? I’m only asking since there are crew that specifically have abilities that say “eliminate one crew when this ship is hit”.

    #16898
    Ben
    Keymaster

    If I have an opponent playing as Spain with a ship carrying Joaquin Vega, and I’m playing England with a ship carrying a crew that allows use of all nationalities crew and my own Joaquin Vega, is that a legal setup or can there be only one Joaquin Vega in the whole game?

    That is legal.  The No-Duplicates rule only applies to each player’s individual fleet, not all game pieces in play between all players.

    From The Pirate Code: “A player cannot have two or more of the same character, ship, sea creature, event token, or fort in their fleet at the same time unless it is captured from an opposing player.”

    For crew abilities that state “one cargo may also be removed when this ship hits an enemy ship”, does this apply only to cargo like treasure, unique treasure etc, or does it also apply to crew since they take up cargo space? I’m only asking since there are crew that specifically have abilities that say “eliminate one crew when this ship is hit”.

    From page 3: “-All crew, equipment, and treasures (including unique treasures) are considered cargo, even if they take up no space.”

    The “Cargo Wrecking” ability can be particularly devastating because it can potentially wipe out everything a ship is carrying in one volley if you get enough hits.

    #16963
    Josh
    Participant

    For the “this ship may be given the same action twice” ability, if I’m 6S away from an enemy ship (and my ship can move 3S) but I want to be able to move and shoot, could I chose to move and “shoot” twice (if I roll a 5 or a 6), “forgo” the option to shoot on my first action, then move and shoot on my second action or is that illegal?

    In other words would I require an “extra action” crew over a “same action” crew.

    #16964
    Ben
    Keymaster

    In other words would I require an “extra action” crew over a “same action” crew.

    As long as you have the Captain ability on that ship (“This ship may move and then shoot as part of a single move action.”), it works with either.  SAT (Same Action Twice, same as the Born Leader keyword) allows you to repeat the first action given to the ship.  With a Captain, you can move and shoot twice.

    For the “this ship may be given the same action twice” ability, if I’m 6S away from an enemy ship (and my ship can move 3S) but I want to be able to move and shoot, could I chose to move and “shoot” twice (if I roll a 5 or a 6), “forgo” the option to shoot on my first action, then move and shoot on my second action or is that illegal?

    In that situation, you would need a Captain.  You can choose to only move with the first action, then shoot at the end of the second move action with Captain.

    #16968
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Just for some extra clarity/details:

    As long as you have the Captain ability on that ship (“This ship may move and then shoot as part of a single move action.”), it works with either.  SAT (Same Action Twice, same as the Born Leader keyword) allows you to repeat the first action given to the ship.  With a Captain, you can move and shoot twice.

    When you use the SAT/BL ability to repeat a move action, the only part you’re actually repeating is the move action itself.     Other abilities that attach to a move action (Captain, Explorer, Helmsman, etc.) can be used with either or both of those move actions, and whether or not you used them with the first has no effect on whether you can use them with the second.

    #16969
    Josh
    Participant

    That’s my bad I forgot to mention I had a Captain as well.

    So if I have a Captain and a same action twice crew I can in essence move then move again and shoot as if I were utilizing an extra action crew. Awesome.

    I just didn’t know if there was some distinction between “extra action” and “same action” but with “same action” when you utilize a Captain, you can forgo your first “shoot” in your two “move and shoot”’s if you’re out of range anyway.

    #17024
    Ben
    Keymaster

    From The Pirate Code:

    -Abandoned Crew remain facedown until you use their abilities. While face up, they are treated exactly like their corresponding generic crew.

    –They do not count against the point limit of a ship.

    Normally crew do count against the point limit of a ship – are these different because they were not paid for in the build total?

     

    #17026
    Woelf
    Moderator

    From The Pirate Code:

    -Abandoned Crew remain facedown until you use their abilities. While face up, they are treated exactly like their corresponding generic crew.

    –They do not count against the point limit of a ship.

    Normally crew do count against the point limit of a ship – are these different because they were not paid for in the build total?

    Having their costs change between zero and a non-zero amount created issues with other abilities and effects that forced treasures to be revealed and/or turned crew face down.   Having a face down treasure count against a ship’s point limit would create numerous other issues, so the easiest solution was to make them count zero while face up.

     

    ADDED:  I’ll make a note to edit that PC wording slightly, so it’s more clear that not counting against the limit is an exception to the normal crew rules.   The way it’s written implies otherwise.

    #17028
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Is there any way to bring something “extra” along for a fog hop?  “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.”

    It definitely wouldn’t work with flotillas, and I assume not with towing a derelict either. I can think of maybe one possibility – if an oared ship (like a Galley) with no Oarsman had the Fog Hopper ability copied to it and was being towed by a regular Fog Hopper, I assume it would have to be given a separate move action to fog hop with a ship that was towing it? (forcing you to break the tow either way since I think they’d have to hop separately)

    #17030
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Is there any way to bring something “extra” along for a fog hop?  “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.”

    It definitely wouldn’t work with flotillas, and I assume not with towing a derelict either.

    You can tow derelicts and Flotillas into and back out of fog banks normally, and there’s nothing inherent to the fog-hopping ability that prevents you from taking them with you to the new fog bank.

    Flotilla only blocks abilities that affect the towing ship’s base move, but fog-hopping doesn’t touch the base move, so the combo still works.

    I can think of maybe one possibility – if an oared ship (like a Galley) with no Oarsman had the Fog Hopper ability copied to it and was being towed by a regular Fog Hopper, I assume it would have to be given a separate move action to fog hop with a ship that was towing it? (forcing you to break the tow either way since I think they’d have to hop separately)

    As long as nothing breaks the tow in between, a fog-hopper could take a Galley (without an Oarsman) with it.   If you give the Galley its own move action, they’ll have to go their separate ways; the Galley would exit the original fog bank unless it did somehow gain the fog-hopping ability beforehand.

    #17031
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Suppose I have Grapple Shot on a 4 mast ship and I’m shooting at a 5 mast ship. I decide to use my Grapple Shot last, and hit with it, while my other cannons went 1 for 3. For the boarding party that Grapple Shot initiates, what value does the 5 mast ship use? The one it currently has or the one that it had before I started shooting at it?

    Also, which would happen first in a turn, deciding a submerged status or playing an Event? Or are the technically simultaneous and their order is left up to me the player?

    #17032
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Suppose I have Grapple Shot on a 4 mast ship and I’m shooting at a 5 mast ship. I decide to use my Grapple Shot last, and hit with it, while my other cannons went 1 for 3. For the boarding party that Grapple Shot initiates, what value does the 5 mast ship use? The one it currently has or the one that it had before I started shooting at it?

    The entire shoot action has to be resolved before the boarding begins, so it won’t matter which cannon you used the Grapple Shot with.    Both ships board with however many masts are left after the shooting finishes.

    Also, which would happen first in a turn, deciding a submerged status or playing an Event? Or are the technically simultaneous and their order is left up to me the player?

    Unless something in the item’s text says otherwise, all “beginning of turn” effects are considered simultaneous.  If there’s an interaction where the specific timing matters, the active/current player gets to choose the order they occur.

    #17035
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    If Davy Jones copies the ability that states a specific ship type, such as “…this sea monster…” or “…this sea creature…” would Jones be able to use that ability, or would he not be able to, being a crew on a ship instead of a sea monster/creature?

    #17036
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If Davy Jones copies the ability that states a specific ship type, such as “…this sea monster…” or “…this sea creature…” would Jones be able to use that ability, or would he not be able to, being a crew on a ship instead of a sea monster/creature?

    If it refers specifically to “sea monster” or “sea creature” (versus “this ship”), he won’t be able to use it, because that does count as a ship type.     The only way it would work for him is if he was riding on a sea monster via the Chariot.

    Behemoth could copy it directly and use it, assuming it didn’t refer to a different specific type of sea creature (Dragon/Titan).

    #17042
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    The above discussion about Abandoned Crew has me now wondering, if a Native Canoe finds an abandoned crew, can the canoe use the abandoned crew, seeing the crew doesn’t have a point cost?

    #17044
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    Does a ship have to have cargo space available to be transferred something that doesn’t take up cargo space? For example, if I wanted to put a unique treasure that didn’t take up cargo space on the Jikininki.

     

    If they had cargo space, would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Dragon or Kraken/Octopus? Similar to how a Sea Monster can have equipment assigned to it.

    In a related tangent, when would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Monster? Only during fleet construction and game set-up? Could you somehow transfer an equipment from a friendly ship to a friendly Sea Monster during a game?

    #17046
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The above discussion about Abandoned Crew has me now wondering, if a Native Canoe finds an abandoned crew, can the canoe use the abandoned crew, seeing the crew doesn’t have a point cost?

    They could carry one face down because it’s treated like treasure that way, but it cannot be face up.    Individual canoes don’t have defined points cost at all, so nothing with a value can be assigned, even if it’s worth 0.

    Does a ship have to have cargo space available to be transferred something that doesn’t take up cargo space? For example, if I wanted to put a unique treasure that didn’t take up cargo space on the Jikininki.

    As long as nothing else is preventing the transfer, something that takes up no cargo space can be loaded onto a ship with no space remaining.

     If they had cargo space, would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Dragon or Kraken/Octopus? Similar to how a Sea Monster can have equipment assigned to it.

    In a related tangent, when would you be able to assign an equipment to a Sea Monster? Only during fleet construction and game set-up? Could you somehow transfer an equipment from a friendly ship to a friendly Sea Monster during a game?

    The sea creature rules don’t prevent the use of equipment, nor do any of the keywords, so if a Dragon/Kraken had cargo space, they could carry some.

    You can assign the equipment at the start of the game, you can load some while docked at an island, or you can assign it to the creature later by having some other ship explore to make the transfer.

    #17082
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    As long as nothing else is preventing the transfer

    I take it that Sea Creature rules would prevent a transfer, correct?

    How would an ability have to be worded to be used with Broadsides Attack?

    #17083
    Woelf
    Moderator

    As long as nothing else is preventing the transfer

    I take it that Sea Creature rules would prevent a transfer, correct?

    In general, yes, although the creature’s specific keyword can still override that.

    How would an ability have to be worded to be used with Broadsides Attack?

    It would have to specifically call out Broadsides Attack and state in some way that it can still be used with it.    “This ability may be used with Broadsides Attack“, “When this ship uses Broadsides Attack…“, “When targeted by a Broadsides Attack…“, “When this ship succeeds at a Broadsides Attack…“, or something else along similar lines.

    #17085
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Does Hoard override the loser chooses rule?  I think it does but couldn’t recall for sure so I played it the other way against T O’B.

    Can the Maui’s Fishhook use her ability before receiving any segments?  “Once per turn as part of a move action, this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship up to S away from her.”

    -Ex: First action to go through whirlpool, then second to come back through the same one. Ability was used in between to nab a coin and then flee on the same turn.

    Can the fort Thompson’s Island (+1 to cannon rolls when a ship is docked at it) benefit from a flotilla being docked at it?  Essentially, can flotillas dock as a free action at islands when the towing ship docks even though they have no bow?

    Am I correct in saying that fog hoppers cannot use a second action to go into a fog bank on one turn and move out of a different one with the second action? “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.”  Essentially next “ship’s turn” means next player’s turn, not the ship’s next action, right?

    #17095
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Does Hoard override the loser chooses rule?  I think it does but couldn’t recall for sure so I played it the other way against T O’B.

    The standard rule still applies, but by taking as much as you can carry you’re more likely to get to the good stuff.  One of the biggest benefits of that ability is being able to take zero-space UTs that the other player would normally want to protect.

    Can the Maui’s Fishhook use her ability before receiving any segments?  “Once per turn as part of a move action, this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship up to S away from her.”

    -Ex: First action to go through whirlpool, then second to come back through the same one. Ability was used in between to nab a coin and then flee on the same turn.

    It requires a move action, but isn’t locked to any specific timing within that action, so you can use it before or after any segment.

    Can the fort Thompson’s Island (+1 to cannon rolls when a ship is docked at it) benefit from a flotilla being docked at it?  Essentially, can flotillas dock as a free action at islands when the towing ship docks even though they have no bow?

    Despite all of the exceptions they get, Flotillas do still count as ships, and they are considered docked if placed in contact with an island.

    Am I correct in saying that fog hoppers cannot use a second action to go into a fog bank on one turn and move out of a different one with the second action? “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.”  Essentially next “ship’s turn” means next player’s turn, not the ship’s next action, right?

    You are correct.  It specifically refers to the end of turn, not individual actions.

    #17096
    Ben
    Keymaster

    The standard rule still applies, but by taking as much as you can carry you’re more likely to get to the good stuff.  You can also take as many zero-space UTs as you want.

    I didn’t clarify enough, or I’m reading into your answer too much heh.

    Ex: Cannibal King (who has the Hoard ability) wins a boarding party against Congress. Congress has crew and treasure. Can the loser choose to just lose one crew, or does Hoard require them to lose all their treasure instead since abilities override rules?  When applying Hoard or Massacre (kill all enemy crew if you win a boarding), I assume those are instead of the result the loser would normally choose?  Or can they choose to lose (in the case of Hoard) crew and then get their treasure taken as well? (potentially making the abilities “in addition to” IF the loser chooses to also lose the opposite type of cargo, for example if they want to sabotage a ship just before capture)

    #17097
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I didn’t clarify enough, or I’m reading into your answer too much heh.

    Ex: Cannibal King (who has the Hoard ability) wins a boarding party against Congress. Congress has crew and treasure. Can the loser choose to just lose one crew, or does Hoard require them to lose all their treasure instead since abilities override rules?  When applying Hoard or Massacre (kill all enemy crew if you win a boarding), I assume those are instead of the result the loser would normally choose?  Or can they choose to lose (in the case of Hoard) crew and then get their treasure taken as well? (potentially making the abilities “in addition to” IF the loser chooses to also lose the opposite type of cargo, for example if they want to sabotage a ship just before capture)

    I think I misread your question, or focused on the wrong part.    The effect of that ability is technically in addition to the normal result, so while the opposing player does get to choose between losing a crew and losing a treasure, you still get to take as much as you can carry.  It’s generally going to be in their best interests to choose to lose treasure to minimize the loss, unless there’s a specific crew on the ship they really want to get rid of before you take their gold.

    Regardless of the “choice” made, the losing player still gets to choose which specific treasures (in order) that you take.

    ADDED: For timing purposes, if it becomes relevant somehow, the normal boarding result is fully resolved before Hoard gets to start grabbing treasure.

    ADDED 2:  This does apply to other abilities triggered by boarding too, like “Massacre”, “choose two”, and the Capture abilities.  They don’t replace the normal boarding result unless it specifically says they do.

     

    #17098
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Sorry, disregard the above.   I found the actual ruling that was already established, so use this instead (from the PC):

    Board

    -An ability that provides an alternative boarding result (such as capturing a crew, eliminating all crew, or taking all treasure) overrides the losing player’s choice, unless the winner chooses to not use that ability.

    Back to the original question:  Yes, it does override the loser’s choice, and based on that previous precedent, the ability replaces the normal result (rather than applying in addition to it).

    #17105
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    If a switchblade blades a ship, would that count as touching that ship for the purpose of abilities like Filching Gold (Once per turn this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship she touches)?

    If yes, would a Scorpion hitting a ship with it’s blade also count?

    Filching Gold is worded as a”once per turn”, could it be used like any of the other once per turn abilities like a canceller or a spying ability?

    #17107
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If a switchblade blades a ship, would that count as touching that ship for the purpose of abilities like Filching Gold (Once per turn this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship she touches)?

    If yes, would a Scorpion hitting a ship with it’s blade also count?

    Blades hitting other ships does count as touching them, so other abilities that require touching can be used.

    Filching Gold is worded as a”once per turn”, could it be used like any of the other once per turn abilities like a canceller or a spying ability?

    Yes, you can use it outside of your own turn if some other player moves their ship into contact with yours.     (You cannot keep reusing it if the ships are already in contact, because it says “touches” rather than “is touching” or “while touching”.)

    #17114
    Ben
    Keymaster

    It’s determined by the ship’s current controller, so you make the check when that player starts their turn, regardless of when the ship was actually lit on or fire or when it lost its last non-fire mast.

    Because of this, couldn’t you delay (or eliminate the need for) the automatic scuttle by capturing the ship that only has fire masts?  It seems the requirement to scuttle the ship on its next turn would reset every time the ship changes hands.

    #17121
    Woelf
    Moderator

    It’s determined by the ship’s current controller, so you make the check when that player starts their turn, regardless of when the ship was actually lit on or fire or when it lost its last non-fire mast.

    Because of this, couldn’t you delay (or eliminate the need for) the automatic scuttle by capturing the ship that only has fire masts?  It seems the requirement to scuttle the ship on its next turn would reset every time the ship changes hands.

    Yes, changing hands will delay the automatic scuttle, because it wasn’t in your fleet at the start of your turn, when the fire/scuttle check is made.

    Allied players in a team game could maybe string a flaming ship along like that long enough to get it to safety, but in a normal competitive game, being captured back and forth isn’t likely to buy the ship more than an extra round or two, unless the fire goes out completely or someone manages to repair it in between.

    #17209
    Ben
    Keymaster

    If a ship with only fire masts is wrecked on a reef, does the ship stay in play with the fire masts still there (permanently until game end), or does the automatic scuttle still happen and take her and her cargo out of play?

    #17215
    Woelf
    Moderator

    If a ship with only fire masts is wrecked on a reef, does the ship stay in play with the fire masts still there (permanently until game end), or does the automatic scuttle still happen and take her and her cargo out of play?

    Becoming wrecked on a reef overrides/prevents the fire scuttle, similar to how a ship on fire can still be shot and sunk using standard cannons to trigger the normal sinking rules.

     

    You can leave the fire masts in the wreck for the cool visual effect, but they will no longer function as fire masts once you’ve removed part of the hull.

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