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If Davy Jones copies the ability that states a specific ship type, such as “…this sea monster…” or “…this sea creature…” would Jones be able to use that ability, or would he not be able to, being a crew on a ship instead of a sea monster/creature?
If it refers specifically to “sea monster” or “sea creature” (versus “this ship”), he won’t be able to use it, because that does count as a ship type. The only way it would work for him is if he was riding on a sea monster via the Chariot.
Behemoth could copy it directly and use it, assuming it didn’t refer to a different specific type of sea creature (Dragon/Titan).
Suppose I have Grapple Shot on a 4 mast ship and I’m shooting at a 5 mast ship. I decide to use my Grapple Shot last, and hit with it, while my other cannons went 1 for 3. For the boarding party that Grapple Shot initiates, what value does the 5 mast ship use? The one it currently has or the one that it had before I started shooting at it?
The entire shoot action has to be resolved before the boarding begins, so it won’t matter which cannon you used the Grapple Shot with. Both ships board with however many masts are left after the shooting finishes.
Also, which would happen first in a turn, deciding a submerged status or playing an Event? Or are the technically simultaneous and their order is left up to me the player?
Unless something in the item’s text says otherwise, all “beginning of turn” effects are considered simultaneous. If there’s an interaction where the specific timing matters, the active/current player gets to choose the order they occur.
Is there any way to bring something “extra” along for a fog hop? “If this ship (sea monster) ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she may use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play.”
It definitely wouldn’t work with flotillas, and I assume not with towing a derelict either.
You can tow derelicts and Flotillas into and back out of fog banks normally, and there’s nothing inherent to the fog-hopping ability that prevents you from taking them with you to the new fog bank.
Flotilla only blocks abilities that affect the towing ship’s base move, but fog-hopping doesn’t touch the base move, so the combo still works.
I can think of maybe one possibility – if an oared ship (like a Galley) with no Oarsman had the Fog Hopper ability copied to it and was being towed by a regular Fog Hopper, I assume it would have to be given a separate move action to fog hop with a ship that was towing it? (forcing you to break the tow either way since I think they’d have to hop separately)
As long as nothing breaks the tow in between, a fog-hopper could take a Galley (without an Oarsman) with it. If you give the Galley its own move action, they’ll have to go their separate ways; the Galley would exit the original fog bank unless it did somehow gain the fog-hopping ability beforehand.
From The Pirate Code:
-Abandoned Crew remain facedown until you use their abilities. While face up, they are treated exactly like their corresponding generic crew.
–They do not count against the point limit of a ship.
Normally crew do count against the point limit of a ship – are these different because they were not paid for in the build total?
Having their costs change between zero and a non-zero amount created issues with other abilities and effects that forced treasures to be revealed and/or turned crew face down. Having a face down treasure count against a ship’s point limit would create numerous other issues, so the easiest solution was to make them count zero while face up.
ADDED: I’ll make a note to edit that PC wording slightly, so it’s more clear that not counting against the limit is an exception to the normal crew rules. The way it’s written implies otherwise.
It only prevents move actions, not actions in general.
Sorry, I misread that initially.
Some limitation on it still may be needed, because even just limiting to move actions makes it act like a multi-ship reverse pin. It would still be fairly easy to position this ship to minimize how many of the opposing ship(s)’s cannons can fire back, leaving the opponent no good way to escape without a canceler of their own.
A couple days behind, but…
Architect
Ability: Enemy ships within S of this ship at the beginning of their turn may not be given move actions that turn.This ability needs significant extra limitations of some sort on it, because it’s game-breaking as-is. It’s basically a super canceller without any non-specialized defense against it. Any ship it catches that doesn’t have a canceller of its own or significant outside support, is completely dead in the water while Architect slowly picks it apart. Even then, that outside support needs to be able to completely destroy Architect with the first attack, or it’ll simply change its position slightly to envelop both/all ships nearby.
Absolute worst-case-scenario, the player with this ship manages to catch a player’s entire fleet while still docked at their home island.
You could add a die roll like Fear, reduce the blockage to just a specific type of action (no shoot actions, or no move actions – but not both), add some negative effect that prevents Architect from keeping ships trapped for more than a turn or two…
Just for some extra clarity/details:
As long as you have the Captain ability on that ship (“This ship may move and then shoot as part of a single move action.”), it works with either. SAT (Same Action Twice, same as the Born Leader keyword) allows you to repeat the first action given to the ship. With a Captain, you can move and shoot twice.
When you use the SAT/BL ability to repeat a move action, the only part you’re actually repeating is the move action itself. Other abilities that attach to a move action (Captain, Explorer, Helmsman, etc.) can be used with either or both of those move actions, and whether or not you used them with the first has no effect on whether you can use them with the second.
Wrench
Ability: Once per turn, roll a d6. On a result of 5-6 repair a mast on every friendly ship within S of this ship.Is this a free action and/or is it mandatory?
A possible variant to consider:
“You may give this ship a repair action even if it is undamaged. When you give this ship a repair action, roll a d6: on a result of 5 or 6, you may also repair one mast on every friendly ship within S. If this ship has a crew with the Shipwright keyword, the roll automatically succeeds.”
Cannon ranges of friendly ships within S of this ship are L.
I like this one. Not sure how useful it’ll be on a ship that’s plodding along with a base move of only S, but it could be interesting to use if it was on a quick single-master.
Since the Celestine’s ability doesn’t specify where a Trade Current can be placed, can the Celestine place them anywhere, aside from in contact with another ship, island or terrain?
That is correct. None of the spacing rules for other terrain apply, so as long as it’s not touching something else, you can put that Trade Current anywhere you want on the entire table.
If this ship wins a boarding party, turn this crew face down and eliminate up to three masts from the enemy ship. This crew cannot be turned face up for a number of turns equal to that of the eliminated masts. If this ship loses a boarding party, eliminate this crew and up to three masts from this ship.
Is the “up to three masts” meant to be a choice for both the losing/winning side? Ex: Normally the loser chooses the result after a boarding party. Is this designed to eliminate 3 masts regardless of how many masts are remaining (such as never less than 3), or can you specifically choose to eliminate less?
I think it would be less open to interpretation if you took out the “up to” wording. Especially because the Pirate Code makes it pretty clear that things that eliminate masts (icebergs, 2 masts/hit, etc) don’t sink ships by themselves, and this would fall in that category.
In addition, is the mast effect in addition to the regular boarding result(s), or instead of?
Either way, I think he could be cheaper, maybe 7 points.
Presumably the “up to three” is intended to cover situations where the target ship has fewer than three masts remaining. I can’t think of many scenarios where you wouldn’t choose to eliminate the maximum amount if you could. Regardless, as written, it wouldn’t sink the ship automatically no matter how much it overshot the number of masts remaining.
As for the ability itself, the wording presents some potential issues that need to be addressed:
-As written, the crew will essentially never be face up. It would be face down until used, then immediately flipped back down after. If crew transfers at islands and/or with other ships happen during that three-turn window, it becomes very easy for opponents to lose track of where this “revealed” crew has gone.
-How does this ability interact with Royal Officer? The effects of that will only work while face up, which could force this crew to start the game up, but having this ability turn it face down later can easily create illegal situations if the ship was over its point limit. Based on the established PC ruling that you cannot voluntarily create illegal situations on your own ships, if the ship was even one point over its normal limit, use of this boarding ability would be blocked entirely.
-What would actually trigger the last sentence (loses a boarding) part of the ability? Unless the effect is specifically stated as mandatory, you’d never choose to flip it face up after losing a boarding, especially if the opposing player didn’t know you had this crew on the ship. If the intention is that you’d reveal this ability at the start of a boarding action before rolling or determining the result, that needs to be stated.
-If this ship wins a boarding and this ability is shut down for three turns, does that also prevent the “lose” effect from applying if this ship boards or is boarded and loses during that window?
-Tracking things over multiple turns is always problematic without some specific mechanism to handle it. An extra die, tokens, chips or some other external thing would be required. If the ship with this crew is captured during that three-turn window, does the timer continue or reset?
Do you know if there are any free actions that can be used/taken during an opponent’s turn?
I assume not based on this line from the Code (which is mostly for full actions), but just wanted to make sure.
You can give actions only during your own turn and only to members of your own fleet, unless an ability specifically allows otherwise.
I can’t think of any free actions that can be given off-turn, but that line would cover things if it ever came up in a custom ability. That entry is mainly there to cover team games where there would be friendly ships you don’t control, and the handful of specific abilities that do allow you to give actions to ships that aren’t yours, like Altar of the Loa.
How does the timing of the automatic scuttle via fire masts work? “When a ship has only fire masts, she must be scuttled on her next turn.”
Ex: Player 1 makes a Player 2 ship have only fire masts on Player 1’s turn. For that ship, is “her next turn” the next Player 2 turn (the same round she was set alight), or the Player 2 turn after that one? It seems that it would depend on when “has only fire masts” is applied – on the controlling player’s turn or the overall player turn when the condition occurred that she only has fire masts left.
It’s determined by the ship’s current controller, so you make the check when that player starts their turn, regardless of when the ship was actually lit on or fire or when it lost its last non-fire mast.
Keep in mind that the scuttle doesn’t have to happen at the start of that turn, just sometime during the turn. You can still save the ship if you put the fires out and/or repair at least one standard mast during that turn.
To keep [Overton] more in line the established “recruiter” ability:
“This crew takes up no cargo space when revealed. When revealed, put a crew with point cost 3 or less from outside of the game onto this ship.”
Would that about cover it?
Yep, that’ll cover it.
Even if some details like the number of points change, it’s always best to try to emulate the wording already used by WK as much as possible, just for the sake of consistency.
You may have posted it elsewhere, but what does the Guardian keyword do?
Dr. Albert Overton
Ability: Guardian. When this crew is revealed, place a crew worth point cost 3 or less from outside the game onto this ship. This crew takes up no cargo space. When this ship is docked at your Home Island, you may eliminate a treasure. It becomes a 3S cannon that can only be eliminated when this ship sinks. If another crew on this ship would be eliminated, turn it face-down instead.
Minor point on this one. You should move the sentence, “This crew takes up no cargo space”, ahead of “When this crew is revealed…”, so there’s no chance for confusion about which crew actually takes up no space. Where it’s currently placed, it’s ambiguous whether it’s Overton or the crew he pulls in that gets to take up no space.
Is the Doctor ability always mandatory to use? I know it doesn’t work with Sac but curious if it’s ever optional (mostly thinking about whirlpools where you’d actually prefer to lose an oarsman rather than a mast).
“When another face-up crew on this ship is would be eliminated turn it face down instead.”
The doctor ability is always optional to use.
Saving another crew from a whirlpool is a good use for it; the elimination effect applies after moving, so bringing the crew back immediately after it’s supposed to be eliminated won’t prevent you from using the whirlpool.
(If you had one or more crew that “cannot be eliminated”, they wouldn’t be eligible for the whirlpool so you’d have to choose something else.)
I understand that Jailhouse Dog can only be used once per round of player turns when the same ship also has Nemo’s Plans aboard. How does the timing of trying to reuse it work in a multiplayer game? For example, let’s say it’s a 4 player game and the JD controller is player 2. If they use it on player 3’s turn to essentially “cancel” a UT, can they use it on their next player 2 turn during the next round, or must they wait until at least the next player 3 turn?
Hmm… I can’t recall ever actually addressing this situation directly before, which is honestly surprising.
Based on wordings and to avoid turning it into a selective Kharmic Idol, the “once during each of your own turns” restriction has to apply.
However, since Jailhouse Dog is one of the few things in the game allowed to be used out-of-turn without being directly prompted by something else, you can expand that to “once per round”, so you can use it (once) during anyone’s turn, instead of only during your own specifically.
——————————
ADDED:
The revised (but unreleased) wording for the PC entry on Nemo’s Plans that I already had written down in my notes actually covers it pretty well, without referring to Jailhouse Dog specifically:
Nemo’s Plans
-If a UT applies to, modifies, or is triggered by some other specific action it may be used once, each time that action occurs.
-If a UT applies immediately upon being found and/or provides an action directly to a ship, it may be used once during each of your own turns.
-If a UT is loaded facedown and can be revealed voluntarily later, including as a response to an opponent’s actions or effects (such as a die roll), it may be used once per round.
I know this has come up before but can’t find anything on it in the Code or forum search.
Can Born Leader/SAT be used to double up on the L-mover ability and use it twice in the same turn by the same ship? “Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move an enemy ship L in any direction.”
The mover ability only requires a move action and isn’t limited to once per turn, so with good rolls you could double it up.
-Can you roll successfully for Born Leader and then give a different ship an action before returning to the ship that got SAT? By extension, can you just roll for all the SAT/EA/etc abilities in your fleet at the beginning of your turn and then use that knowledge to help plan your fleet and action logistics?
You can roll for them early if you want to, but if the source gets tagged by a canceller or the crew with the ability gets eliminated before using the bonus action they generated, you lose it.
-If a ship with both Neptune’s Figurehead and Plague is sunk, the order of operations has Plague removed from play before the ship returns to the home island? (just making sure the Plague wouldn’t prevent the Figurehead from working since you can’t dock)
Both UTs are essentially still getting removed at the same time, so Plague will not prevent the Figurehead from sending your ship home.
-The crew that a ship links to is open information, correct? (I assume you can just ask an opponent to see the bottom of a deckplate, rather than it being hidden information like face down crew)
Everything printed on a ship’s deckplate card (both sides) is considered open information.
If it’s a ship that links to multiple different crew, you do have to indicate if one of those links is being used, but you don’t have to specify which one it is until that crew gets revealed during normal gameplay.
Once a crewmember’s token has been revealed, information on their card is considered open information too.
In general, once the name of a ship/crew/etc. on the table is known, it’s assumed that other players would be able to look at a copy in their own collection and/or online to see any and all details of it, but in the interests of saving game time, it’s quicker to just read or show them whatever relevant info they don’t already have memorized.
-Can you choose the order in which ship-specific “before giving this ship an action” effects happen? (ex: Born Leader vs. fire mast rolls)
You can roll for Born Leader (or similar) any time prior to giving the action, but that roll isn’t technically part of the action, so that won’t trigger fire mast rolls on its own.
Fire Masts get rolled “before” only when you actually give an action to the ship. If you decide not to give the ship any actions, regardless of how many you might have generated for it, you don’t have to roll for fire.
Timing-wise, you could sneak a BL roll in just between the last fire mast roll and giving the ship the action, but there’s going to be little functional difference between doing it then compared to rolling beforehand. You’ll have a slightly better idea of how much of your ship will be left, but that won’t influence the actual BL die roll at all, and by that point you’re already locked into performing that first action.
-Do you have to roll for effect on new fire masts during the same pre-action time period in which they are gained? (I would assume not until the next pre-action “phase” for the ship, or else… yikes)
Yes, you do have to immediately roll for any new fire masts that get added. That’s actually a big part of why the die results were changed after a few sets from the original 1-3/6 to the less brutal 1-2/5-6. Originally, even a single fire mast on a ship was a death sentence unless it was within a move or two of home, or you got incredibly lucky with rolls.
Hey everyone,
Do we have copies of the tournament rules and game types Wizkids used to host their tournaments?
If we wanted to host a pirates csg tournament would we be able to replicate how Wizkida refereed the games?
I dug up an old copy of the “Comprehensive Tournament Rules” from 2008, but don’t have a good place to post them, so I’ll email a copy to Ben to add to the site here, in case he doesn’t already them somewhere.
Much of what’s in it had already been incorporated into the Pirate Code, or deals with logistical stuff like table sizes, time limits, and what players are allowed to do between games, but they’re mostly just rough guidelines, and the “Privateer” (person running the event) is given discretion to change pretty much any part of it they want.
Would this cover it? The wording for the lightning attack feels a little clunky, but I’m not sure how best to word it, as a leviathan doesn’t have a base like a Sea Monster or Sea Dragon.
That should work. It is a little clunky, but there’s not a lot that can be done to clean it up more.
If it doesn’t have a base, will it be built more like a standard ship?
That’s an interesting idea, I may implement that as an ability in addition to the keyword for one of the six leviathans that I have planned. One of those six will certainly have the full range of all 7 cannons, while I’m also fairly certain that a different one will be almost the opposite, with the head cannon being the only one it has.
I’m trying to work out the keyword before I start drawing up the stats for the six of them
The entire repair option, regardless of how it works, might be better suited as a separate ability from the main keyword. That would give you even more flexibility with pricing, power levels, and even the specific functions. You could also make it so some of the smaller/cheaper ones can’t use it at all – similar to the four PotC krakens and Eternal.
That should work. It’ll have to be a pricey ability and it still would be frustrating to play against, but not completely game-breaking.
A leviathan may be shot at only when it is on the surface; its segments cannot be eliminated unless the cannon roll is a 6.
The first half of this sentence isn’t needed; it’s just repeating the “cannot be shot at” part in the previous paragraph.
I would recommend adjusting the second part to at least to a 5-6 instead of just a 6. Drastically reducing the odds of hitting is a better defense than requiring multiple hits to eliminate a mast, because that makes it entirely a matter of luck that doesn’t care about the attacking ship’s cannon ranks at all – especially with the free repair option.
You may give a leviathan an action (regardless of submerged status) to make one 2L range, rank-2 lighting attack…
I think you should still refer to this as a special type of “shoot action”, similar to how a Sea Dragon’s swoop attack is worded, to reduce the chance of issues with other abilities that refer to shoot actions and hits. It would contradict with the line earlier about not being able to shoot while submerged, but you can adjust that part to specify that it can’t do a “normal” shoot action while submerged.
After a Leviathan resolves a move action, as a free action it may repair any one missing segment.
A possible balancing aspect I just thought of for this would be to only allow it to repair segments with cannons. The extra non-cannon segments it has (I’m assuming 2 or 3 at most) could then act more like defensive panels. You’d also introduce a subtle tactical decision for the player when the Leviathan gets hits, where they’d have to choose between temporary reduced firepower or keeping all cannons active but permanently losing some durability.
ADDED: Actually, the opposite might even be more interesting, where only the non-cannon ones can grow back. That would make it function more like an “ignores first hit” ability that was fully renewable as long as you didn’t take too much damage all at once.
The repair (without damage reduction) would work too, but it would be better as a full action, or at least not something that can be used on the same turn as an unlimited surface move. The sea creature restriction on repairing, regardless of how it’s done, doesn’t matter because this keyword would override that rule.
Does this become “better” if a Leviathan can no longer move with unlimited movement?
Yes, definitely, because then it won’t be able to instantly escape from something that poses a legitimate threat to it.
Most of the individual pieces are fine, but the combination still seems like way too much. I completely understand wanting to make things as thematic as possible, but gameplay concessions often have to be made to keep things playable or they’re going to be on the express boat to banned item island.
Being able to attack while submerged already makes it nearly invulnerable, because that negates one of biggest flaws of Sea Monsters. With that option, the only reason a Leviathan would ever need to surface would be to make the unlimited movement, which can instantly put it out of reach of any potential threats.
A leviathan may be shot at only when it is on the surface; three hits in the same shoot action are required to eliminate one segment from a Leviathan.
After a Leviathan resolves a move action, as a free action it may repair any one missing segment.
These two effects combined are essentially the same as being fully invulnerable. Without a canceler, you’d need an entire fleet delivering 21 total hits within a single turn to actually kill it, otherwise it can simply dive back underwater (or teleport away) for a couple turns to repair. For all intents and purposes, you’d still be required to have a canceller (or a really dumb opponent) to to have any reasonable chance of stopping it.
Two hits to eliminate a mast (without the free repair) should be more than enough unless this keyword is costing like 50 points on its own.
The repair (without damage reduction) would work too, but it would be better as a full action, or at least not something that can be used on the same turn as an unlimited surface move. The sea creature restriction on repairing, regardless of how it’s done, doesn’t matter because this keyword would override that rule.
If its segments cannot be eliminated, how do you defeat it without a canceller?
Would Broadsides Attack work, when its a viable target on the surface?
Technically BA would work while the creature is on the surface, but that appears far less often in games than cancellers, and is significantly harder to use even under normal circumstances. It’s still going to be a major game-breaking issue to have something that only be countered by two very specific abilities.
If you really want (for thematic reasons) to keep the part about segments not being eliminated by attacks, some other major negative aspect needs to be added to the keyword make this remotely playable, like losing segments every time it moves or attacks, or something along those lines.
Leviathans have 7 segments (six claws, one head); However Leviathans may not always have cannons assigned to all their segments. Segments that do not have cannons assigned to them have a blank |_| where a cannon would be. Leviathans cannot re-assign cannons from one segment to another.
You wouldn’t need to have an extra blank mark for the non-cannon ones, you can just leave them unmarked entirely, and then simplify the text by saying, “Only segments with cannons shown can shoot.”
You don’t need the extra line about reassignment either, unless the segments with cannons are purposely left generic so they can be switched around. (I’d recommend against leaving them flexible, because it adds a lot of complexity for little gain. It works for forts only because they can’t maneuver to line up shots on their own, but even then there’s not much variance in available cannons.)
A leviathan may shoot at other ships, regardless of submerged status. A leviathan may be shot at only when it is on the surface, but its segments cannot be eliminated or replaced.
Being able to shoot while submerged but only be shot at while on the surface could become very problematic. Any opponent that didn’t bring along a canceller or a sub-shooter (or lost it during play) will be nearly helpless to stop one of these from picking their fleet apart one-by-one. Running away isn’t much of an option either, with the unlimited movement ability.
If its segments cannot be eliminated, how do you defeat it without a canceller? A ship that can’t be destroyed without a very specific counter but that can still attack others freely creates a whole pile of other gameplay issues. That’s getting into Whitebeard/Sleigh territory.
When a leviathan is given a shoot action you may make one 2L+L+L lighting attack, measured from the cannon on the leviathan’s head(it may make no other attacks). Roll a d6, on a result of 3-6 eliminate up to two masts from the target ship, as well as any other ship in the line of fire with the attack.
Can this be used while submerged? As written it can, but using lightning underwater raises some thematic questions.
Is there a reason why it’s written as “2L+L+L” instead of 4L? I’m assuming you didn’t mean that it’s a rank-2 attack with a range of 3L, because the following line specifies the die result needed.
What do you mean by “in the line of fire with the attack”? Does the initial attack ignore line-of-sight so you can target a ship further away and also hit everything in between, or does the attack continue past the initial target to hit anything else in a straight line beyond it?
If it continues beyond, is there a maximum range or number of targets limit? Without limits of some kind, scaling quickly becomes a serious issue when playing on a larger table with a lot of players and/or ships. Even in a smaller game, this would create potential for sniping ships on the far side of the table if you lined up your initial shot correctly.
Does this attack distinguish between friend or foe when it comes to those secondary targets?
It could work, but depending on how the ship model was designed and how the distinction between them was set up, the ability/keyword text explaining it could get pretty complicated.
I was thinking that some masts would have a cannon printed on them, while others did not. For example, a ship that has 3 total masts, but only has cannons assigned to 2 of those 3. I might expand upon this further in Custom Ships.
Having a mast with no die shown at all is functionally almost the same thing as the handful of BC galleys with 6-rank masts; extra hit points without adding extra firepower (or cost). I think your idea would work fine, as long as it’s explained somewhere that it’s not an error or misprint.
If the ship type comes with its own keyword for other purposes, that would be the best place to add a note about the rank-less masts, similar to how Sea Monsters/Dragons/etc. originally had extra text explaining that their segments worked just like masts.
If a ship existed that tracked its cannons and number of masts separately from one another, would that ship be compatible with the existing rules, or would it be better in a differently structured game?
It could work, but depending on how the ship model was designed and how the distinction between them was set up, the ability/keyword text explaining it could get pretty complicated.
Bombardiers, Flotillas, Marines, and the “shoot from eliminated masts” ability already do things that are vaguely similar.
Ah interesting, I missed that part from the Code. A little surprising to me – I saw there was nothing in Titan that prevents it, but the sea creature rules do, so I defaulted to no. Makes S-Board a weence more appealing. XD
You can’t do it with a standard ram/boarding because of the sea creature rules, but the S-Board gives you that nice ability vs. rule override, so it still works.
Just confirming: Titans cannot be S-boarded?
The Titan keyword doesn’t specifically prevent being boarded, so you CAN use that ability against one.
ADDED (from the PC):
“As part of a move action, this ship may initiate a boarding party against a ship up to S away from her, without having to ram. The boarded ship may not use any boarding bonuses.”
-This ability may be used to board a sea creature, unless some other ability (such as the sea creature’s keyword) specifically prevents it from being boarded.
