The Fleets Thread

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  • #3714
    Ben
    Keymaster

    The marines can then be dropped off at a contested wild island to hold things down until the Marin can come and pick the gold up.

    That’s the hope, but stuff like that has never really worked for me.  The Marine doesn’t prevent a ship with 2+ masts and explorer from coming in and grabbing stuff, then leaving before the Marine can get a second shot in. (assuming the first even hits)  It helps to have 2, but it’s an awful lot of points to be paying for a couple of mobile 2S cannons that are easily avoided or taken out.

    I think the “extra cannon crew” would have been a lot more viable and interesting if the original pricing had Musketeers at 2 and Marines at 4.  Or even 1 and 3 or 2 and 3.  Musketeers are not that great, making the premium Marine version even less effective, to the point where I’ve found them to be somewhat useless.  To make them worth 6-7 points, they would have to both prevent explore actions and have a 2L or 3L musketeer for “sniping” that eliminates crew, in addition to the regular 2S.  Even then they’d be risky compared to an extra gold runner or for example a world-hating captain.

    This fleet will go up against Barbary Corsairs and a Jean Laffite-led swarm fleet soon.

    Yikes.  Though perhaps the Marines will be good against 1 masted gold runners.

    #3781
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Just republished 4 Fleets since I missed yesterday.  Including some relatively complicated switchblade crew setups that should be fun to play.

    #3783
    Jack
    Participant

    The planned matchup against the BC fleet was put on hold for the long game until Barbarossa gets here. However, the Marine did prove useless in that game, as the Tiger’s Eye took it out first try.

    I do think Marines can be neat counters to Barbary ships because of how poor Barbary cannons can be, but they’re still way too expensive and like you said, since the Barbary Corsairs can still explore and leave as long as it has 3+ masts or an explorer it won’t be in any real danger. I think they should’ve been able to shoot twice on land, like longships sorta.

    #3785
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Marines should have been a lot less expensive and useful. As they are right now, they’re pretty much not worth the points investment. I’d rather have a Sac captain with fodder than a 2S gun that has a gimmicky island move mechanic, often for the same cost.

    #3786
    Jack
    Participant

    I really do feel like Marines were meant to be stacked. If Woelf’s lurking maybe he can correct me here, but as the only ability that can stack in the game I wonder if Wizkids meant for people to play 2-3 Marines per fleet, like an army to compliment your navy. But their point cost would make even less sense in that case.

    #3787
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I really do feel like Marines were meant to be stacked. If Woelf’s lurking maybe he can correct me here, but as the only ability that can stack in the game I wonder if Wizkids meant for people to play 2-3 Marines per fleet, like an army to compliment your navy. But their point cost would make even less sense in that case.

    You can absolutely do that, it’s just incredibly impractical.  No sense in paying 12-18 points for 2-3 extra cannons when you can get a good gunship with crew for the same cost.

    #3823
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Alright boys, I’ve got a very special game coming up soon. We’re not sure when we want to do this, but next weekend might be the perfect time.

    My friends and I were thinking of having our first ever deathmatch, and I’ve crafted a French fleet that I hope will put up a good fight!

    Pour l’Empereur!

    40 pts

    Le Soleil Royal: 23 pts

    Capitaine Arathiel, Helmsman, Vicomte Jules de Cissey, 3 Oarsmen

    La Bonne Chance: 22 pts

    Captain, Le Mont Blanc

    The object of this fleet is to bring an overwhelming amount of guns to bear at a critical point. Arathiel has 3 chances to make his ability count (4 if he’s desperate enough to sac the helmsman) so against the two opponents I’ll be having, the Soleil should put in a lot of work. The Bonne Chance will be there to act as a huge beatstick, to ward off any retaliation, and to bog down any enemies. It can unhitch the Mont Blanc and ram something, firing first to make sure the ram roll goes our way, keeping an enemy stuck in the water while the Mont Blanc takes potshots at whatever comes out of the melee.

    Let me know what you guys think of this fleet. I’m really proud of it and I had a lot of fun coming up with it, and it just further solidifies my love for the French.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Mechavelli.
    #3825
    Jack
    Participant

    I assume you mean the flotilla, not the blockade runner for Mont Blanc?

    Been a while since I’ve done a deathmatch– 12 years, actually– so my advice is probably outdated but I feel like speed is king in them. So the 3S MontBlanc towing a flotilla is a nice move, and Arathiel being able to effectively double your movement speed is also a must. I don’t know what your collection is like, or what the rules here are, but I really like Firepots in Deathmatches.

    Also, if you have/can get them, the extra 5 pt guy whose name I’m blanking on + Monsieur LeNoir might be useful here. You can replace 2 Oarsmen to make room, meaning that Arathiel will have less “bait” to SAC but you get a sweet canceller ability in the trade-off.

    #3827
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I think it looks good!  Tough to fit a canceller into the setup without eliminating the flotilla, even using the F&S Lenoir.

    firing first to make sure the ram roll goes our way, keeping an enemy stuck in the water

    I assume you’re talking about dismasting them; you get pinned after you ram, not them. (“reverse pinning” doesn’t work even with the Schooner keyword/etc)

    #3828
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Won’t it work if the enemy remains alive? I understand that I’ll be pinned for one turn if I derelict them, but if they have a single mast remaining, they’ll be stuck as well. My point being that I can sacrifice the Bonne Chance to either pin a dangerous ship, or even better, kill it outright.

    Do you see any weaknesses in this fleet? It’s a 40 point deathmatch but I’d like all the advice I can get so I can better my game! As of now all of my plays and fleets are based upon theorycrafting and haven’t been tempered in the forge of battle.

    #3830
    Jack
    Participant

    You can’t pin an enemy ship with one of your own pieces except Sea Monsters. They can always move away.

    (RIP to one of my favorite strategies- Using the Snipe to ram a warship with all L-range guns like USS Constitution.)

     

    #3831
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Whoaaa it looks like I missed an integral part of the ramming rules. Only the ramming ship is pinned, not both! Ok, this means that ramming is fairer than I thought earlier: You can remove a mast most of the time for free, but you sacrifice a move action next turn. It would used for finishing moves, I suppose, in that case.

    Now that I know that the Bonne Chance won’t pin anybody, I guess I can still use her to ram and finish something off, but it’s a lot riskier now that the enemy ship can move away. I would have to make sure that the enemy isn’t left with more than 2 masts, that way they don’t kill my Mont Blanc or Bonne Chance next turn. It’s going to be a little more case-to-case now.

    Anyways, advice is needed! Is this as tight and deadly as it can be? This isn’t for a learning game, it’s fully competitive!

    #3832
    Jack
    Participant

    Only thing I’m unsure on is how well flotillas will do in deathmatches. My gut says it’s a good idea, but I can’t say for sure, since you’re using La Bonne Chance to tow it and while that’s the fastest French ship around it’s not the most deadly.

    #3833
    Jack
    Participant

    “Barbarossa’s Revenge” – 40 pt. Barbary Corsair fleet

    Barbarossa is somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean at the moment, on his way here. I’ve come up with a fleet to play him in when he does get here.

    Tiger’s Eye (24 pts)

    – Aruj Barbarossa

    – Firepot Specialist

    Whisper (6 pts)

    Morocco (10 pts)

    – Helmsman

    I keep trying to design fleets without the Tiger’s Eye, and I keep winding up using it anyway. Bah.

    #3834
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    You guys were right, I checked the Spanish Native Canoes and they’re 9 points, not 10. As such, here’s my new Rebel Spanish fleet:

    Rebel Spanish

    40 pts

    El Leon: 14 pts

    Captain + Helmsman + Contessa Anita Amore

    San Pedro: 21 pts

    Explorer + Native Chieftain

    Native Canoes

    El Raton: 9 pts

    Diablo

    Divers: 1 pt

    Fortaleza Dorada 

    With the addition of Divers, this fleet should have a maximized gold output from all sources. Not only do the Spanish create gold from nowhere, but this fleet can also put its war dogs to good use by hunting enemy runners and blasting them; not only do they serve the purpose of protecting the ever-important gold runners, but El Leon and El Raton can also generate a modest income by stealing it from whoever is so lucky to come across them!

     

     

    #3836
    Ben
    Keymaster

    You can remove a mast most of the time for free, but you sacrifice a move action next turn.

    Not necessarily on the second part.  If they move away on their turn after you ram, you could move again on your next turn unless you’re immobilized by something else.  But it can also go the other way – if they don’t move away and they keep masts up, they can keep you pinned as long as they have masts on the rammed/pinning ship.

    Anyways, advice is needed! Is this as tight and deadly as it can be? This isn’t for a learning game, it’s fully competitive!

    I think it’s quite good for a 40 point French deathmatch fleet.  You’ve got a max of 17 shots per turn, which is very nice.  You have good abilities present and the 3L’s and Extended Range can help mitigate enemy cancellers, which you certainly might see.  Barring a submarine, you should be well-prepared for most enemies and it could come down to a simple shootout.

    Those latest fleets look good too.  Though Leon and Raton are set up to only have 1 open cargo space between them, so stealing gold with them could be tough. (unless you’re referring to bringing back enemy derelicts)

    #3837
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Oh no, I meant with the Divers event. Doesn’t it allow you to sink a ship with treasure and then take all the treasure for yourself? Bringing back enemy derelicts is definitely an option though, since there shouldn’t be a lot of ships out on the seas to put pressure on a towing ship.

    Thanks for your feedback! I know I’ve said it before, but I’m really enjoying building these fleets!

    #3838
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Oh no, I meant with the Divers event. Doesn’t it allow you to sink a ship with treasure and then take all the treasure for yourself? Bringing back enemy derelicts is definitely an option though, since there shouldn’t be a lot of ships out on the seas to put pressure on a towing ship.

    Ah yes.  No problem there, I just prefer not to use events.

    I know I’ve said it before, but I’m really enjoying building these fleets!

    Indeed, it can be great fun!  I’ve been having fun lately just looking back at my past fleets as I resubmit them to the site here.

    #3976
    Jack
    Participant

    Well I went ahead and bought Le Loup-Garou anyway. (Saw it for 50 cents so why not?)

    Here’s a fail-tastic “fleet” that, for some reason, tries to invest everything into LLG:

    Le Bon Marin (6 pts)

    Le Loup-Garou (34 pts)

    – LeNoir (F&S 4 pt version)

    – Benoit de Marseilles

    – Michel de Bordeaux

    The two Marines did well on board Le Favori in a similar concept. Le Favori’s speed and L-range immunity allowed it to be a platform for the marines to shoot safely. This fleet just goes all in on that gimmick. The weakness of the Favori build was boarding. That’s fixed with the Ghost Ship ability. Also, Lenoir will stop captains in their tracks, essentially giving the ship the “can’t be shot at by ships S away from her” ability. It can only be hit by L-range guns more than S-away, which is pretty tricky. Or else you’d need something like a Captain AND an extra action crew.

    Is this fleet good? No. Is it going to be fun? I think so!

     

    #3977
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Well I went ahead and bought Le Loup-Garou anyway.

    Funny enough I just posted about LLG since Economy Edition is one of the only games I’ve used her in.  It does look like an amusing fleet, and one I certainly wouldn’t expect.

    #3987
    Jack
    Participant

    Oh yeah I imagine something like Econ edition would make her a bit more useful, being able to dart across big islands or lines of reefs to transport something safely.

    #3993
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I just finished reposting my fleets from MT in the Fleets category here!  😀  Before too long I may also post the fleets I posted earlier in this thread.

    #3994
    Mechavelli
    Participant
    1. Here’s a new fleet for you lads. I’ve been brewing quite a lot of them, so I’ll be posting more as time goes on. The following fleet is English, focusing on destroying opposing ships rather than gold running. Of course, it can gold run decently, but that’s not the point of any English fleet, right?

     

    Her Majesty’s Privateers

    HMS Grand Temple: 25 pts

    Blackheart + Helmsman + Oarsman + Cannoneer

    HMS Oxford: 20 pts

    Captain + Helsman + Sir Christopher Myngs + Administrator Scott Bradley + Commodore Rhys Gryffyn Owen

    Aberdeen Baron: 14 pts

    Helmsman

    Treachery: 5 pts

    Divers: 1 pt

    Ramsgate 

    Total: 65

    Let me know what you guys think about this. I meant this fleet to be overbearingly strong and deadly, with even the primary gold runner being hard to kill at 5 masts. The double actions Myngs and Blackheart provide will give me an edge, and the Ramsgate can be placed strategically to deny gold runners or hamstring any surviving gunship.

    #3995
    Jack
    Participant

    I never know how to judge fleets that aren’t 40 pts because I’ve not played many games other than the standard 40 pt one. But HMS Oxford is one of England’s best ships, and Aberdeen Baron of course is a fantastic gold runner.

    As the Carrion Crew is not English, (and also 4, not 5 pts) you can make it a pure England fleet with HMS Cumberland. I also like the HMS Snipe a lot at 8 points.

    #3997
    Mechavelli
    Participant

    I have the Treachery as well, it’s a bit of an ironic pick but it is 5 points and it has an extra cargo space to take better advantage of its gold running role.

    #4073
    Jack
    Participant

    I’ve managed to make a couple decent offensive Corsair fleets. I once won a game with Marques Miguel Antonio and False Treasure taking up half the point cost. I once beat El Acorazado with the Zephyr. But now I face my toughest challenge yet… building a mercenary fleet that can actually win a game.

    The mercenaries are probably my third favorite nation (France-Corsairs-Mercs) but god there’s no way around them being the worst at the base game. They might not have even been intended to be played as a pure nation, though the lore certainly indicates that they are all on the same “team” more or less.

    I have exactly half the fleet pretty much set:

    Devil Ray, Yeshaji Angria, Cursed Zone.

    I think I want to use Nikos Chelios as well, which will allow for more gold stealing, as well as using lots of UTs to slow an opponent down like Metal Hull and Enemy of the State. But where to put him on? The Mobilis is cheap at 11 points and has a canceller so I can actually unload treasure at my HI, but it only moves S and if I put a helmsman on it then I can’t use Chelios’s ability. I can use Brave Selkirk to further steal treasures, but I wouldn’t be able to ever offload.

    Maybe Devil Ray with Yeshaji, and Brave Selkirk with Chelios and Fiore? I really like Cursed Zone when using MIs though…

    #4075
    Ben
    Keymaster

    @Mechavelli: I like the English fleet!  Though I hate the Treachery due to her flavor text (English are my favorite faction).  Hopefully you can sub her out for the Cumberland or Antelope sometime.  🙂

    I once won a game with Marques Miguel Antonio and False Treasure taking up half the point cost.

    That deserves a battle report.  XD

    I once beat El Acorazado with the Zephyr.

    Explosives?  Or just part of the game in terms of gold?

    Interesting fleet you’ve got percolating there.  Angria is extremely expensive for what he does, and Chelios is arguably not better.  Mercenary named crew in a 40 point fleet is going to be rough either way.  Are you purposely restricting yourself to only submarines?  They do have a few options with 4 cargo that Chelios could be assigned to.

    I’ve tried some all-Mercenary fleets designed to win.  You can currently see the main 2 at the top of this search.

    #4077
    Jack
    Participant

    I’ll take a look at your fleets. I really like the submarines lore-wise but I could see myself going for one of their wooden ships + Devil Ray if that makes it somewhat more playable.

    As for the other fleets:

    I forget what the other fleet was in the Antonio/False Treasure game but I got really lucky with False Treasure, I think it eliminated 13-14 gold.

    Zephyr beating Acorazado happened just recently. Acorazado wiped out an entire Pirate fleet except for the Zephyr, losing one mast in the process. Zephyr was able to evade it long enough to set up a fort. Acorazado sailed up to the fort (Devil’s Maw) and hit it twice. The Maw was able to hit twice to bring Acorazado down to three masts, then Zephyr darted out and rammed Acorazado. The ram was successful, then in the boarding party they each rolled a 7, except Zephyr’s +1 bonus gave it the win and eliminated Admiral Castro. With Zephyr now blocking Acorazado’s line of sight to the fort, Spain just sunk the Zephyr to end the game rather than risk another turn.

    Turns out, the pirates had enough gold in the Maw to win.

    #4126
    Jack
    Participant

    OK here’s some spitballing for pure Merc fleets:

    40 points:

    Matuku (17 pts)

    – Nikos Chelios

    Mobilis (21 pts)

    – Eileen Brigid O’Brien

    – Helmsman

    – Smokeshot Specialist

    Cursed Zone (2 points)

    UTs: Metal Hull, Enemy of the State, Luddite’s Revenge

    Matuku touching a ship = 3 coins stolen. Mobilis provides security and a means to actually unload the treasure. O’Brien is really just an overpriced Captain but at least provides a +1 on mysterious islands. The UTs and Cursed Zone help slow your opponent down so you can ideally steal the three best treasures they pick up.
    —————————————————-

    Devil Ray (18 pts)

    – Yeshaji Angria

    Santa Molina (22 pts)

    – Christian Fiore

    – Captain

    – Helmsman

    UTs: Plunder, Buried Treasure, Rum

    Molina is a decent battleship, while Angria on board the Devil Ray can make a beeline for your Opponent’s HI and make things tough for gold runners, while getting a good feel for where the best remaining coins are. The UTs slow down your opponent by a turn and if you manage to get them first thanks to Angria or steal them then they provide a big gold boost.

    ——————————————————————–

    <b>Hephaestus </b>(28 pts)

    – Herr Fuchs

    – Christian Fiore

    – Helmsman

    Devil Ray (12 pts)

    – Helmsman

    One ship booms, one ship zooms. Don’t lose boom ship or else zoom ship can’t unload anything.

    #4127
    Ben
    Keymaster

    In the first fleet, you could use the Savage Shores version of O’Brien since she has SAT/Born Leader for the extra speed.  Not sure how the Smokepot Specialist is going to help much.

    For the second fleet, the Devil Ray will struggle with HI raiding because she doesn’t have a helmsman.  In order to dock at their HI, you have to surface first, losing out on the +L bonus and thus needing to be within S of their HI.  Going back for a second coin will take an extra turn since she can’t just move away and redock on the next turn.  I love the Devil Ray, but still think she needs a helmsman pretty much all the time for maximum effectiveness.

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