The Fleets Thread

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This topic contains 47 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Ben 6 days, 5 hours ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 31 through 48 (of 48 total)
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  • #3714

    Ben
    Keymaster

    The marines can then be dropped off at a contested wild island to hold things down until the Marin can come and pick the gold up.

    That’s the hope, but stuff like that has never really worked for me.  The Marine doesn’t prevent a ship with 2+ masts and explorer from coming in and grabbing stuff, then leaving before the Marine can get a second shot in. (assuming the first even hits)  It helps to have 2, but it’s an awful lot of points to be paying for a couple of mobile 2S cannons that are easily avoided or taken out.

    I think the “extra cannon crew” would have been a lot more viable and interesting if the original pricing had Musketeers at 2 and Marines at 4.  Or even 1 and 3 or 2 and 3.  Musketeers are not that great, making the premium Marine version even less effective, to the point where I’ve found them to be somewhat useless.  To make them worth 6-7 points, they would have to both prevent explore actions and have a 2L or 3L musketeer for “sniping” that eliminates crew, in addition to the regular 2S.  Even then they’d be risky compared to an extra gold runner or for example a world-hating captain.

    This fleet will go up against Barbary Corsairs and a Jean Laffite-led swarm fleet soon.

    Yikes.  Though perhaps the Marines will be good against 1 masted gold runners.

    #3781

    Ben
    Keymaster

    Just republished 4 Fleets since I missed yesterday.  Including some relatively complicated switchblade crew setups that should be fun to play.

    #3783

    Jack
    Participant

    The planned matchup against the BC fleet was put on hold for the long game until Barbarossa gets here. However, the Marine did prove useless in that game, as the Tiger’s Eye took it out first try.

    I do think Marines can be neat counters to Barbary ships because of how poor Barbary cannons can be, but they’re still way too expensive and like you said, since the Barbary Corsairs can still explore and leave as long as it has 3+ masts or an explorer it won’t be in any real danger. I think they should’ve been able to shoot twice on land, like longships sorta.

    #3785

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Marines should have been a lot less expensive and useful. As they are right now, they’re pretty much not worth the points investment. I’d rather have a Sac captain with fodder than a 2S gun that has a gimmicky island move mechanic, often for the same cost.

    #3786

    Jack
    Participant

    I really do feel like Marines were meant to be stacked. If Woelf’s lurking maybe he can correct me here, but as the only ability that can stack in the game I wonder if Wizkids meant for people to play 2-3 Marines per fleet, like an army to compliment your navy. But their point cost would make even less sense in that case.

    #3787

    Ben
    Keymaster

    I really do feel like Marines were meant to be stacked. If Woelf’s lurking maybe he can correct me here, but as the only ability that can stack in the game I wonder if Wizkids meant for people to play 2-3 Marines per fleet, like an army to compliment your navy. But their point cost would make even less sense in that case.

    You can absolutely do that, it’s just incredibly impractical.  No sense in paying 12-18 points for 2-3 extra cannons when you can get a good gunship with crew for the same cost.

    #3823

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Alright boys, I’ve got a very special game coming up soon. We’re not sure when we want to do this, but next weekend might be the perfect time.

    My friends and I were thinking of having our first ever deathmatch, and I’ve crafted a French fleet that I hope will put up a good fight!

    Pour l’Empereur!

    40 pts

    Le Soleil Royal: 23 pts

    Capitaine Arathiel, Helmsman, Vicomte Jules de Cissey, 3 Oarsmen

    La Bonne Chance: 22 pts

    Captain, Le Mont Blanc

    The object of this fleet is to bring an overwhelming amount of guns to bear at a critical point. Arathiel has 3 chances to make his ability count (4 if he’s desperate enough to sac the helmsman) so against the two opponents I’ll be having, the Soleil should put in a lot of work. The Bonne Chance will be there to act as a huge beatstick, to ward off any retaliation, and to bog down any enemies. It can unhitch the Mont Blanc and ram something, firing first to make sure the ram roll goes our way, keeping an enemy stuck in the water while the Mont Blanc takes potshots at whatever comes out of the melee.

    Let me know what you guys think of this fleet. I’m really proud of it and I had a lot of fun coming up with it, and it just further solidifies my love for the French.

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by  Mechavelli.
    #3825

    Jack
    Participant

    I assume you mean the flotilla, not the blockade runner for Mont Blanc?

    Been a while since I’ve done a deathmatch– 12 years, actually– so my advice is probably outdated but I feel like speed is king in them. So the 3S MontBlanc towing a flotilla is a nice move, and Arathiel being able to effectively double your movement speed is also a must. I don’t know what your collection is like, or what the rules here are, but I really like Firepots in Deathmatches.

    Also, if you have/can get them, the extra 5 pt guy whose name I’m blanking on + Monsieur LeNoir might be useful here. You can replace 2 Oarsmen to make room, meaning that Arathiel will have less “bait” to SAC but you get a sweet canceller ability in the trade-off.

    #3827

    Ben
    Keymaster

    I think it looks good!  Tough to fit a canceller into the setup without eliminating the flotilla, even using the F&S Lenoir.

    firing first to make sure the ram roll goes our way, keeping an enemy stuck in the water

    I assume you’re talking about dismasting them; you get pinned after you ram, not them. (“reverse pinning” doesn’t work even with the Schooner keyword/etc)

    #3828

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Won’t it work if the enemy remains alive? I understand that I’ll be pinned for one turn if I derelict them, but if they have a single mast remaining, they’ll be stuck as well. My point being that I can sacrifice the Bonne Chance to either pin a dangerous ship, or even better, kill it outright.

    Do you see any weaknesses in this fleet? It’s a 40 point deathmatch but I’d like all the advice I can get so I can better my game! As of now all of my plays and fleets are based upon theorycrafting and haven’t been tempered in the forge of battle.

    #3830

    Jack
    Participant

    You can’t pin an enemy ship with one of your own pieces except Sea Monsters. They can always move away.

    (RIP to one of my favorite strategies- Using the Snipe to ram a warship with all L-range guns like USS Constitution.)

     

    #3831

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Whoaaa it looks like I missed an integral part of the ramming rules. Only the ramming ship is pinned, not both! Ok, this means that ramming is fairer than I thought earlier: You can remove a mast most of the time for free, but you sacrifice a move action next turn. It would used for finishing moves, I suppose, in that case.

    Now that I know that the Bonne Chance won’t pin anybody, I guess I can still use her to ram and finish something off, but it’s a lot riskier now that the enemy ship can move away. I would have to make sure that the enemy isn’t left with more than 2 masts, that way they don’t kill my Mont Blanc or Bonne Chance next turn. It’s going to be a little more case-to-case now.

    Anyways, advice is needed! Is this as tight and deadly as it can be? This isn’t for a learning game, it’s fully competitive!

    #3832

    Jack
    Participant

    Only thing I’m unsure on is how well flotillas will do in deathmatches. My gut says it’s a good idea, but I can’t say for sure, since you’re using La Bonne Chance to tow it and while that’s the fastest French ship around it’s not the most deadly.

    #3833

    Jack
    Participant

    “Barbarossa’s Revenge” – 40 pt. Barbary Corsair fleet

    Barbarossa is somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean at the moment, on his way here. I’ve come up with a fleet to play him in when he does get here.

    Tiger’s Eye (24 pts)

    – Aruj Barbarossa

    – Firepot Specialist

    Whisper (6 pts)

    Morocco (10 pts)

    – Helmsman

    I keep trying to design fleets without the Tiger’s Eye, and I keep winding up using it anyway. Bah.

    #3834

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    You guys were right, I checked the Spanish Native Canoes and they’re 9 points, not 10. As such, here’s my new Rebel Spanish fleet:

    Rebel Spanish

    40 pts

    El Leon: 14 pts

    Captain + Helmsman + Contessa Anita Amore

    San Pedro: 21 pts

    Explorer + Native Chieftain

    Native Canoes

    El Raton: 9 pts

    Diablo

    Divers: 1 pt

    Fortaleza Dorada 

    With the addition of Divers, this fleet should have a maximized gold output from all sources. Not only do the Spanish create gold from nowhere, but this fleet can also put its war dogs to good use by hunting enemy runners and blasting them; not only do they serve the purpose of protecting the ever-important gold runners, but El Leon and El Raton can also generate a modest income by stealing it from whoever is so lucky to come across them!

     

     

    #3836

    Ben
    Keymaster

    You can remove a mast most of the time for free, but you sacrifice a move action next turn.

    Not necessarily on the second part.  If they move away on their turn after you ram, you could move again on your next turn unless you’re immobilized by something else.  But it can also go the other way – if they don’t move away and they keep masts up, they can keep you pinned as long as they have masts on the rammed/pinning ship.

    Anyways, advice is needed! Is this as tight and deadly as it can be? This isn’t for a learning game, it’s fully competitive!

    I think it’s quite good for a 40 point French deathmatch fleet.  You’ve got a max of 17 shots per turn, which is very nice.  You have good abilities present and the 3L’s and Extended Range can help mitigate enemy cancellers, which you certainly might see.  Barring a submarine, you should be well-prepared for most enemies and it could come down to a simple shootout.

    Those latest fleets look good too.  Though Leon and Raton are set up to only have 1 open cargo space between them, so stealing gold with them could be tough. (unless you’re referring to bringing back enemy derelicts)

    #3837

    Mechavelli
    Participant

    Oh no, I meant with the Divers event. Doesn’t it allow you to sink a ship with treasure and then take all the treasure for yourself? Bringing back enemy derelicts is definitely an option though, since there shouldn’t be a lot of ships out on the seas to put pressure on a towing ship.

    Thanks for your feedback! I know I’ve said it before, but I’m really enjoying building these fleets!

    #3838

    Ben
    Keymaster

    Oh no, I meant with the Divers event. Doesn’t it allow you to sink a ship with treasure and then take all the treasure for yourself? Bringing back enemy derelicts is definitely an option though, since there shouldn’t be a lot of ships out on the seas to put pressure on a towing ship.

    Ah yes.  No problem there, I just prefer not to use events.

    I know I’ve said it before, but I’m really enjoying building these fleets!

    Indeed, it can be great fun!  I’ve been having fun lately just looking back at my past fleets as I resubmit them to the site here.

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