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T3 continues with its second matchup.
Today I played the third matchup and it was a doozy… Game 2 got kinda crazy, especially with the sheer volume of options I had to consider before finalizing a potential “path to victory” for one of the fleets….
Expecting those games to be published this coming Friday through Sunday.
They’re not as clearly addressed in the rules as forts/events/etc., but are still prominent enough that any organized event needs to account for them one way or another. If there’s no mention of them, you have to assume they’re legal to use even if some players may not like them.
Hm. I’ve been using the previous answer about the d6 rolloff method for Tournament #3 games so far, so I might just stick with that method for consistency the rest of the tournament (if MI’s come up again).
If the island treasure trading ability is used to receive a UT that can’t be loaded, does the UT still apply? (and stay on the island, for example with Altar of the Loa)
The trading ability takes place immediately before revealing UTs, so if you received the Altar or any other UT that can’t be loaded (Wolves, etc.), it applies normally as if it had been on your current island from the start.
Does that answer hold if the UT has already been revealed? Ex: I assumed you couldn’t trade for a face-up Altar of the Loa based on the below related entry for Wolves. When I wanted to make the trade, Altar was the only coin on the wild island being targeted, so it wouldn’t have been random.
-If a ship has the ability to trade treasure from one island to another, it cannot target treasure on an island where Wolves has been revealed because that ability requires the traded treasure to be loaded, which Wolves prevents. If Wolves has not been revealed, even if one or more players know it is there (due to other abilities), the island may be targeted for the swap normally.
From the entry on Island Treasure Trading:
-If the island chosen for the trade contains more than one treasure, the choice of token must be random. If one or more of the treasures have been previously revealed and/or they have distinctive backs, it may become necessary to use a draw bag, roll a die, or find some other suitable method to ensure that the choice is random.
I would contend that a d6 roll is almost a must to determine the random selection (such as 1-2: face up Altar, 3-4: face down coin #1, 5-6: face down coin #2). If it’s a draw bag, does the treasure that was face up get placed back face up? If so, it would require an outside entity to ensure that the face down treasures stay hidden. (or have a player that already explored that island look at them to find the coin that needs to be face up and flip it, but the treasure situation on the island could have changed, and could give them an advantage if they had forgotten what else was on the island but then were reminded of it)
If it’s a draw bag where the coins get essentially shuffled face down and there is no “referee” to oversee the correct treasure getting flipped face up again, is this a way to potentially force a face up treasure to go face down again? (and therefore making it a possible target of future trades again. Quite a specific situation, but adds to my point above about why a reshuffling/draw bag would be problematic in many cases)
Are all ships affected by the Foul Winds event moved in the exact same direction? I assume so, but it does say “any ship” instead of “all ships”.
Reveal this event at the beginning of one of your turns and place its token anywhere on the play area (except on an island or a ship). Any ship (except docked ships) within L of the token is moved L in one direction chosen by the player to the left of that ship’s controller. If a ship touches an island, eliminate one of her masts. Remove Foul Winds from the game.
Can you flip an abandoned crew face up just to make it crew so you can use the free transfer rule with it? Normally you can only flip a crew when using it’s abilities I think, but this seems like a good exception to that since you may want the abandoned crew to be treated as crew as soon as possible after loading them onto a ship.
I just want to confirm I have the “Explorer loophole” correct: Ship with 3 total cargo spaces docks at island. She has helmsman and explorer. She unloads the helmsman as part of the explore action and then loads two coins. Explore action ends. Then she uses the free transfer rule to swap out the explorer and get her helmsman back.
I think that’s the main gist of it? I’ve had to repeatedly dig into the Explore Action order of operations with some of the tournament games, and the last part really stands out because it doesn’t require loading treasure before unloading crew.
11) Load or unload facedown UTs, non-unique treasure, and any other cargo as desired and as cargo space allows.
Thanks!
Otherwise it sets a precedent and could potentially lead to “I don’t want to play against forts/events in this game. Let’s roll off”.
The difference between those and MI’s is that forts/events never have their legality or usage in doubt from the standard rules – they’re always fair game. The rules make specific concessions on Mysterious Islands that create a sort of gray area, which makes me understand the dilemma a bit better. Ex:
You can also choose to play them as regular islands with no special effects.
Mysterious islands chosen as home islands might show game text when placed with the face up. Before starting your game, choose whether or not you want to use that island’s special effects.
Excited to see Universal Pirate Swan in tournament action starting tomorrow.
Can a Navigator place a trade current within S of a friendly ship that is lost in a fog bank? If so, is it measured from any part of the fog bank?
My guess is that it can’t because it’s a fixed range, but it’s not technically being used against or by the lost ship. (instead, “for” it)
-If an ability, action, or other effect has a fixed range, requires line of sight, affects an area, or requires direct contact between ships, it cannot be used against (or by) a ship that is “lost” in a fog bank. If an ability does not have one or more of those requirements, it may be used against (or by) a ship in a fog bank.
Sad to hear that Kelly Bonilla passed away. (she was lead designer on Rise of the Fiends, Fire and Steel, and Savage Shores + Return to Savage Shores)
https://icv2.com/articles/columns/view/56156/rolling-initiative-invoices-lists-rip-kelly-borilla
The current Fleet Challenge is called Convoy Defense! Deadline to submit is 3/14. (invite link if you haven’t already joined the discord server)
Here is the series between UPS 4.1 and Kill that UPS!
Technically it will trigger, but because it’s happening simultaneously with the sinking and neither specifies priority, the current player can choose to roll for the crew ejection before the ship sinks or to just let it sink first (which will prevent the roll).
The current player should be the one shooting, so this is an exception to the loser chooses default rule? (not sure that it matters who rolls for Jonah’s ability)
-When a crew with this keyword is placed on a ship, that ship immediately gains the Mercenary keyword; if this occurs during setup the ship must immediately be relocated to a position S away from your home island.
If a ship relocated via this method must be on top of a terrain piece due to space constraints*, is there any interaction with the terrain when the ship is given a move action? (especially if it’s a ship that is entirely contained within an iceberg after the iceberg moves farther “underneath” the ship) Or is it probably ignored entirely under the “make space if necessary” clause similar to other situations where the only space a game piece could occupy would create an illegal situation?
*Ex: A huge build total game where 20+ ships surrounded the home island and all had the Mercenary or Ex-Patriot keyword, so terrain nearby was an obstacle to placing them not in contact with terrain.
Does the L+L range for a swoop attack ignore all other game pieces and islands/terrain that might be in the way for line of fire?
Can a Sea Dragon land on an iceberg? Getting really intrigued by this section of the Code:
-In certain rare situations it is possible for a ship to occupy the exact same position as an iceberg. When this occurs, the ship loses one mast as normal. If the ship moves first it must move entirely off of the iceberg if possible; if the iceberg moves first, the ship remains in place and does not move with the iceberg. In either case, the ship will not take additional damage from that iceberg until they leave contact completely and then move back into contact.
If you get the Mysterious Island effect “Move an opposing ship using her base move”, can you target an enemy flotilla in order to essentially avoid using the effect? Or must you choose a ship that can actually move?
What happens if a Sea Dragon is moved via Mysterious Island on top of an enemy fort? To me, what takes precedence gets pretty crazy. Since it’s not considered docked as you can’t dock at an island an enemy fort is on, I thought the fort would be able to shoot in on itself to hit the dragon. However, there’s also all this:
If a sea dragon lands in the center of an island, that island will block line of fire to and from the sea dragon except where parts of it (particularly the wingtips) extend outside of the island.
Lines of fire drawn to and from the fort are not blocked by ships, the island, or any part of the fort itself, but they are blocked by fog banks and icebergs.
-This list applies only when two or more abilities conflict. When an ability and a rule conflict the ability always takes precedence regardless of the terms used, unless specifically stated otherwise.
This is a clarification on the Sea Dragon keyword vs. the fort shooting rules, so the dragon can’t be shot at unless the fort’s cannons can hit any parts of the dragon that might be extending past the edge(s) of the island? (this might take the cake for the most confusing rules question I’ve thought about in some months)
When using an L-mover, do you have to move the full L, or can you move the ship a partial amount like with a move segment? (“move an enemy ship L in any direction”)
Where in the rules does it say that icebergs block lines of fire? I didn’t see it in the Code, or scanned copies of the FN or OE rules. (I’m thinking about trying to protect a ship by somehow getting it to overlap an iceberg, then having an ally keep it entirely contained in the ice with “mover” stuff and using Nemo’s Plans with Runes of Thor/Loki to move the iceberg in a specific direction)
If a fog bank placed by a smokepot specialist is the exact same size and shape as an existing piece of terrain already in play and the smokebank is placed in exactly the same spot, when a ship comes into contact with this “layered terrain”, I assume they choose which terrain to apply to the ship? (ability doesn’t forbid placing the smokebank in contact with other terrain. Edit: I now see the Code ruling about not placing it in contact with other game pieces, but game piece could be construed as something playable (point/gold cost) rather than an island/terrain, as I don’t see a formal definition of game piece in the Code)
If a whirlpool is completely surrounded/covered by icebergs, does a ship exiting from that whirlpool have to lose a mast upon exit? (with no way to place the ship touching the whirlpool while also not touching any of the icebergs)
I know this is silly, but nothing in the whirlpool rules forbids a player from jumping from one whirlpool to another, back and forth as a stall tactic.
When any part of your ship or sea creature touches a whirlpool, you may choose to place it so that it touches any other whirlpool on the play area. If you do, roll a d6 after it is moved. On a result of 4-6, eliminate either one mast or segment, one treasure, or one crew from the game piece.
Using a whirlpool to jump to another whirlpool ends the ship’s entire move action. It cannot shoot (via a Captain), ram, board, or use any other effects that require a move action, until it is given another move action after exiting the second whirlpool.
It may not have been given a move action….
A smokebank is created. Calypso then creates a whirlpool touching the smokebank. A ship is moved into the smokebank. On the beginning of a player’s next turn, the smokebank disappears, forcing the ship out.
-When the smoke (fog bank) is to be removed, if there are any ships “lost” inside the player whose turn it is should roll for each of their exit locations, place them accordingly, and then remove the fog bank.
The ship ends up touching the whirlpool created by Calypso. Which player decides if the ship goes through to a different whirlpool – the player whose turn it is, or the player who controls the ship being placed by the player whose turn it is?
Does Jonah’s ability apply to a hit that sinks a ship? Or does the ship sink without needing to roll one last time for the ability?
When this ship is hit, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, move the crew on this ship with the highest point cost to a wild island chosen by the player to your left.
Is Ghostly Encounter still worth gold if the ship has the ability of “This ship’s crew cannot be eliminated”? (I assume you just wouldn’t bother rolling, but wanted to make sure the UT still functions)
Once after revealing, roll a d6 for each crew on the ship. On a result of 1, that crew is eliminated. Ghostly Encounter is worth gold equal to the crew remaining on the ship after all dice are rolled.
Can you bring in a 0 point crew with the +5 selection of a 0LR+5 crew? If so, can you go through part of the Setup phase (I think only when going second and an opponent chooses their +5 selections before you do) with an illegal situation on a ship that is then resolved by a crew like Jonah coming in via the +5? Or must the point cap restriction element be fully resolved by the initial X points of your fleet? (very niche use case, and only good for a very brief deke of which crew are on a ship while your opponent might be considering your fleet while making their own +5 selections, with them going first)
Planning to go live tomorrow at 8am PST for the first game of Tournament #3. The live streamed game in January went fine, so I scheduled this one. Hopefully will go off without a hitch. Once all the games of the play-in matchup have been posted, I’ll show the updated tournament bracket.
Hi there. I just got back into this game after (somewhat foolishly) donating my old collection back in 2017 (but I’m making plans to get it back). Pirates was my childhood and I still love it to this day, and I’m glad I finally found a group that is still interested in it as well
Welcome aboard, glad to have you here! 😀
What if both players only bring Isles of Fire MI’s? (no islands can be HI’s) Would you have to just ignore the ability text for all of them?
Isle of Fire: This island can be used only as a wild island. At the beginning of his or her turn, the active player rolls a d6. On a result of 6, randomly eliminate one treasure coin from this island.
Yeah I think that would work, I would just change the last sentence slightly: “This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against the target ship and +S to her base move when moving in a direct line toward the target ship.”
I could still see some rules questions coming up. I think you would need to move all segments in the direct line, including the +S or else it could get gamey.
You wouldn’t have to use it every turn. Yes the +S is treated like a regular movement bonus, you wouldn’t be required to move in a straight line toward the target ship, but you would be required to move toward the target every turn that ship is a target. I suspect the language might need to be cleared up a bit….
In my opinion, custom creators (myself included as many of mine are probably not this way) should get in the habit of saying “you may”/etc to make abilities sound less mandatory. Based on how many original abilities are optional, it’s a bit of an odd aspect of the game that I think Wizkids got wrong.
The +S gets extremely subjective. If not in a straight line, what determines whether or not the ship is moving towards the target? An opponent could demand a certain angle of approach requirement is met. Then you have whirlpool “shortcuts” that could expedite the travel by heading in the opposite direction.
If you’re looking for a cost on Destiny’s Shadow, I would start at 12+ depending on the cannons (seems similar to Black Arrow from RotF). I recommend adding “of her” to the end of the ability text so players can’t interpret it as “within S of whatever I want”.
Explosion may be great against The Cursed, but looks quite average otherwise. I think I would price her at 8.
At the beginning of your turn declare an enemy ship a target of this ship. This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls and +S to her base move against the target ship.
This is pretty unique, not sure how similar it would function to the kraken targeting. Sounds like you must use it every turn, even if you’re targeting the same ship each time. Is that +S treated like a regular movement bonus? Or must the ship being moving in a straight line towards the targeted ship with every segment? It could become a pretty powerful ability to copy, and might see usage on a 10 master via Davy Jones. (possibly in conjunction with LE Griffin to give a 10 “extremespeed”)
You can split it with two silver 1s if you have them, but otherwise change should be made using standard gold coins instead.
Just thought of a strange follow-up. What if the players disagree on how it should be split? Ex: One player wants silver because they have a silver explorer and might try to build a fort with the silver and then bring it back home for the bonus (using other gold on the wild island to keep the fort). The other player is nearly out of the game and sees no way to capture the other player’s silver explorer, yet they fear being home island raided for it. Would it be one of those situations where the players roll to let fate decide?
I could also see it getting a bit weird if a player has a silver 1 on hand, but doesn’t want to use it for the split for similar reasons as above. Or, there is only 1 silver 1 available, rather than the 2 needed for the split to be “equal”.
If a mastless ship has Oarsman cancelled to make her derelict and she makes a successful scuttle attempt, does she sink on that player’s next turn even if the Oarsman is “reactivated” due to the cancellation wearing off? The Code implies as much, just want to be sure. (not so much cancelling the scuttle attempt, but if “uncancelling” the Oarsman reverts the attempt since the ship is no longer derelict again)
If a ship has multiple gold bonus abilities, such as +2 and +1, should they be recorded separately as different coins at the home island or can they be combined into a new 3 coin? (when playing with the option of bringing in new coins from outside the game for gold bonuses, and that gold bonuses can be stolen/used/parleyed/etc.)
-If a docked ship loads Plague by any means it immediately becomes undocked.
Does that end the explore action? Since UT’s are applied before regular treasure is loaded, I played that since the ship became undocked, it couldn’t load standard treasure. Or can the ship finish the explore action despite not being docked at the island?
Can a Sea Dragon swoop attack a fort? Because of the following line from the Code and forts having flags rather than masts, I said no.
A swoop attack is not a normal shoot action and only eliminates masts; it does not use cannons or cause “hits”.
In a 1v1 game, a ship is sunk with a silver 2 aboard. Does each player receive a silver 1? (instead of gold 1’s) If they can’t (due to not having any on hand), must they mark/tally each gold 1 with something that denotes that it’s actually silver?
I’d bring Widow down in cost, probably to the 10-12 range.
The first time each turn that this ship hits another ship, eliminate two masts instead.
I recommend adding “instead of one” at the end. I know it’s a stretch, but this could be interpreted as “instead of Widow scoring a hit, eliminate two masts from her instead”.
I think the first two ships above would see more usage at these costs:
H’Pka: 9
R’Ki: 11Utakam and Boldirk both have strong abilities, so I think you’re probably right on the money with their costs.
Regarding spyer abilities, are players allowed to shuffle the cargo on a ship’s deckplate around to make it harder for an opponent to spy something different each turn? (such as going left to right on face down crew across a deckplate)
“Once per turn, this ship may look at one face-down cargo on any ship.”
Probably a pretty hard thing to enforce if they can’t shuffle, though it should be that way in my opinion because it doesn’t specify that the selection is random.
Middle of this post has a list of what I saved, with some useful URLs you can paste into the Internet Archive to view some of the old threads/etc.
Woelf, do you know if “The Navigator” (Leon Keller) was someone involved with the rules at Wizkids, or a fan of the game in the community? I’m slowly reorganizing my oldest PCSG document and fixing some links, and came across the name in the original MT rules thread (or at least the biggest/most recent one – 143+ pages!).
I think it would be great if the next Pirate Code update included the No-Duplicates List. (hopefully easy to include as it’s already made)
Very rare to see the Morning Stars up for grabs. If any ship other than Obago Deuce might be able to hit $1000, it could be one of those. Also available are a Raptor Maw, various pack lots, and some DJC LE’s.
