Questions About Game Rules & The Pirate Code

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  • #18183
    Ben
    Keymaster

    The only timing distinction that does matter is whether you apply the Maps or SN first, and that will only determine whether SN returns to the island face down and remains face down, or if it returns and then immediately gets flipped face up.

    Maps of Alexandria says “turn all treasure on all wild islands face up for the remainder of the game”, so wouldn’t SN go face up regardless of which is applied first?  “For the remainder” seems like it applies to any and all treasure put back on wild islands at any point in the future.

    SN’s loading restriction only applies to optional treasures, like standard coins and UTs that would normally load face down.   You still have to deal with any and all other UTs normally.

    Good to know – for some reason I didn’t read the Code entry for it yesterday since I was mostly referring to the Explore Action order of operations.  I’m glad it’s already addressed in the Code, but it does feel like an odd exception to the “abilities taking precedence over rules” thing, since faceup UT’s must still be loaded despite the ability text of the UT implying otherwise.

    #18185
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Maps of Alexandria says “turn all treasure on all wild islands face up for the remainder of the game”, so wouldn’t SN go face up regardless of which is applied first?  “For the remainder” seems like it applies to any and all treasure put back on wild islands at any point in the future.

    It’s not a persistent effect, because MoA removes itself from the game.   That “for the rest of the game” clause just means that the treasures turned face up will remain that way on their own (they aren’t revealed and then immediately flipped back down), but because MoA goes away, certain effects can still turn specific treasures face down later.

    It also doesn’t force treasures to turn face up later, if, for example, a treasure had been facedown on a ship when MoA appeared but then was later unloaded to a wild island.

    #18186
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Maps of Alexandria says “turn all treasure on all wild islands face up for the remainder of the game”, so wouldn’t SN go face up regardless of which is applied first?  “For the remainder” seems like it applies to any and all treasure put back on wild islands at any point in the future.

    It’s not a persistent effect, because MoA removes itself from the game.   That “for the rest of the game” clause just means that the treasures turned face up will remain that way on their own (they aren’t revealed and then immediately flipped back down), but because MoA goes away, certain effects can still turn specific treasures face down later.

    It also doesn’t force treasures to turn face up later, if, for example, a treasure had been facedown on a ship when MoA appeared but then was later unloaded to a wild island.

    Huh, well I’ve been messing that up lately. It feels like “remainder of the game” should mean just that (and “all treasure”), but maybe I’ll try doing it the official way sometime too.

     

    Can a Sea Dragon’s head/neck segment be eliminated before the wings can be eliminated? If the head is removed first, the wings have nothing to stand on and would be floating in midair if allowed to continue like that.

     

    Do Kharmic Idol and Pirata Codex eliminate themselves as well, or can they stay face up on the ship loading them?

    #18188
    Jared Nicholes
    Participant

    Sorry, I don’t know what happened there. Don’t know what all that extra text is. Let me try again.

    This is what I meant to say.

    The Revolution card Jean Laffite says the following:

    “Once at the beginning of each of your turns, roll a D6. On a result of six, any ship in your fleet may be given two actions that turn.”

    I don’t know if this means more than one ship can use this ability in one turn if a six is rolled. I also don’t know if the same action can be used twice if a six is rolled, like two move or two shoot actions.

    Could someone please help me figure this out?

    #18189
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    I don’t know if this means more than one ship can use this ability in one turn if a six is rolled. I also don’t know if the same action can be used twice if a six is rolled, like two move or two shoot actions.

     

    If you have different sources of that ability, such as two different crew on different ships, you may make the roll for that ability twice (once per each crew). If you roll a 6, any ship in your fleet may be given two of the four actions, move, shoot, repair or explore. They do not have to be the same two actions, so you could give a ship an explore action then a move action (or vice versa). You can apply the two actions to the ship that the source of the ability is on, in your example, you could give Jean Laffite’s ship two actions, be it two move actions, two shoot actions, two repair actions or some combination thereof.

    #18197
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Huh, well I’ve been messing that up lately. It feels like “remainder of the game” should mean just that (and “all treasure”), but maybe I’ll try doing it the official way sometime too.

    The distinction isn’t going to make too much difference overall, because there are so few ways to flip treasures face down once they’re up.

    It’s mostly only relevant to the treasure that was already on ships when MoA gets revealed, but even those are far more likely to be unloaded at home islands than dropped on other wild islands if they’re of any useful values.

    There are a few MIs too, but they mess with plenty of other stuff already.

    Can a Sea Dragon’s head/neck segment be eliminated before the wings can be eliminated? If the head is removed first, the wings have nothing to stand on and would be floating in midair if allowed to continue like that.

    No, for the same reason you wouldn’t remove the hull of a ship when it still had masts remaining.  😀

     Do Kharmic Idol and Pirata Codex eliminate themselves as well, or can they stay face up on the ship loading them?

    They are face up while the effect is applied, so they get removed along with all of the others.

    #18198
    Ben
    Keymaster

    1-2: Randomly move two treasure coins from this island to another wild island.

    Confirming that this “negative” effect for MI #1 means that you do get to pick which specific wild island the coins are flung to?

    #18199
    Woelf
    Moderator

    1-2: Randomly move two treasure coins from this island to another wild island.

    Confirming that this “negative” effect for MI #1 means that you do get to pick which specific wild island the coins are flung to?

    Correct.   The treasures are chosen randomly, but the player who triggered it gets to choose which (one) island both get moved to.

    #18201
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Once per turn, this ship can move S after loading cargo. (and other similar abilities)

    -The location of the cargo or treasure must be different before and after using this ability. You cannot unload (or load) an item to trigger the bonus and then immediately load (or unload) the same item before moving.

    Are those abilities really enough to warrant the Code adding a clause to the ability? (whereas it’s normally just for clarifying)  I think that “loophole” might be what’s needed to justify their cost.

     

    If a ship happens to get placed in contact with two pieces of terrain at the same time, I assume the owner of the ship chooses which terrain applies first.  What happens if the ship is wrecked on a reef but still overlapping a fog bank?  Would the wreck get sucked in and lost forever?  If the fog bank is applied first, does that mean the reef roll/rating doesn’t apply?  (if it does still apply, it would make it even more likely that it results in a “lost wreck”)  Similarly, if a ship is moved laterally to overlap a sargasso sea and fog bank at the same time, can she get “stuck” in the fog bank and need to make sargasso rolls from the fog? (which might depend on which terrain is applied first)

    A bit of a niche situation if not using a house rule for terrain to be closer than S, but still certainly possible, especially if L-moving a 10 master or other ship with a long hull.

    #18200
    Anthony Moreno
    Participant

    Hello,

    First time using this site as a user so forgive me if I didn’t do my due diligence searching the archives.

    I have a question regarding the unique treasure Plague. If a crew, such as John Paul Jones, with the ability that reads “this ship’s crew cannot be eliminated unless she sinks” were to explore and pick up or be rammed and bestowed the unique treasure Plague, would the unique treasure be cancelled out by this particular ability? I haven’t found a reliable answer so I leave my question for the pirate masters here!

    #18203
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Once per turn, this ship can move S after loading cargo. (and other similar abilities)

    -The location of the cargo or treasure must be different before and after using this ability. You cannot unload (or load) an item to trigger the bonus and then immediately load (or unload) the same item before moving.

    Are those abilities really enough to warrant the Code adding a clause to the ability? (whereas it’s normally just for clarifying)  I think that “loophole” might be what’s needed to justify their cost.

    That loophole kinda breaks the ability, and would make it into more of a “this ship can move S if it touches cargo”.      It is a nice little push-off after exploring a wild island (or immediately after unloading, with the other version that meshes particularly well with Bianco’s Haulers).

    If a ship happens to get placed in contact with two pieces of terrain at the same time, I assume the owner of the ship chooses which terrain applies first.  What happens if the ship is wrecked on a reef but still overlapping a fog bank?  Would the wreck get sucked in and lost forever?  If the fog bank is applied first, does that mean the reef roll/rating doesn’t apply?  (if it does still apply, it would make it even more likely that it results in a “lost wreck”)  Similarly, if a ship is moved laterally to overlap a sargasso sea and fog bank at the same time, can she get “stuck” in the fog bank and need to make sargasso rolls from the fog? (which might depend on which terrain is applied first)

    A bit of a niche situation if not using a house rule for terrain to be closer than S, but still certainly possible, especially if L-moving a 10 master or other ship with a long hull.

    Assuming both were reached at the end of the same movement segment, the general rule that a ship can only move to touch one thing at a time would be applied, so the controller could choose which one it hits.

    #18204
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Hello,

    First time using this site as a user so forgive me if I didn’t do my due diligence searching the archives.

    I have a question regarding the unique treasure Plague. If a crew, such as John Paul Jones, with the ability that reads “this ship’s crew cannot be eliminated unless she sinks” were to explore and pick up or be rammed and bestowed the unique treasure Plague, would the unique treasure be cancelled out by this particular ability? I haven’t found a reliable answer so I leave my question for the pirate masters here!

    The Pirate Code is massive, and threads like this have been going for years, so no worries about asking things that might have been answered in the past – fire away with anything you’ve got!

    As for this question, the crew would be safe while JPJ was on board, but the other effects of Plague would still apply normally.   The ship cannot dock, and will pass Plague on if it touches another ship.

    #18208
    Ben
    Keymaster

    Assuming both were reached at the end of the same movement segment, the general rule that a ship can only move to touch one thing at a time would be applied, so the controller could choose which one it hits.

    I was thinking anything except a movement segment – such as L-moving, or some kind of teleportation ability.  Would the controller still choose if the movement to make contact with two different terrain types was involuntary?

    #18212
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The same would still apply with other movement types – segments are just the most common and most likely to happen.

    #18213
    Anthony Moreno
    Participant

    Right on, I appreciate the clarification and the invite to ask away! I have been playing/collecting since 2004 when I was a teen. With some recent full set acquisitions, I’ve revitalized an already potent love for the game. With that said I have plenty more questions!

     

    Is the utilization of a shipwright aboard a ship at sea considered a free action that can be used once per turn or its own action taking a turn? Alternatively, If I use a crew/ship ability that would grant an extra/same action and have a shipwright aboard, would I be able to use the shipwright for both actions or would I be limited to using it once per turn?

    #18221
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Is the utilization of a shipwright aboard a ship at sea considered a free action that can be used once per turn or its own action taking a turn? Alternatively, If I use a crew/ship ability that would grant an extra/same action and have a shipwright aboard, would I be able to use the shipwright for both actions or would I be limited to using it once per turn?

    A shipwright doesn’t grant any actions on its own, it just changes where you can give the ship a normal repair action.

    Using one isn’t limited to once per turn, so if your ship does gain an extra action (or the same action twice), you could repair twice.

    #18222
    Anthony Moreno
    Participant

    Ok, so I wouldn’t be able to repair and move/shoot in the same action but with an extra action I could?

    #18249
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Ok, so I wouldn’t be able to repair and move/shoot in the same action but with an extra action I could?

    Correct.   With an extra action, you could also repair twice if you wanted to.

    #18257
    Ben
    Keymaster

    I assume you cannot intentionally create illegal cargo situations just by using the free transfer rule?

    Ex: A ship is full with 3 crew and 1 coin, she then loads a crew from the island and the coin is thrown overboard and removed from the game.

    I’m seeing the restriction for exploring, but not for the crew transfer as a free action.

    … choose as much treasure as you want to take (within the ship’s cargo capacity limits)

    Edit: Now I’m seeing the Code ruling on cargo. I assume the free action of transferring crew wouldn’t be enough to voluntarily eliminate crew from the game either.

    Cargo cannot be voluntarily eliminated or removed from the game unless an ability or action specifically allows it.

    If an illegal situation requires the removal of cargo, you must remove crew and/or equipment before treasure.

    #18259
    Woelf
    Moderator

    Edit: Now I’m seeing the Code ruling on cargo. I assume the free action of transferring crew wouldn’t be enough to voluntarily eliminate crew from the game either.

    Voluntarily is the key word.    Essentially, you can’t do anything on your own that would force an illegal situation, which in most cases means you simply cannot use whatever ability or rule would cause it.

    It has to be triggered by an opposing player, or some outside force that you can’t directly control, like a UT found when first exploring an island.

    #18276
    Ben
    Keymaster

    These questions technically involve a house rule where players don’t have to have the punched crew chips face down on their ships’ deckplates, so I understand if that makes it hard to give definitive answers.

    The last few years I’ve noticed a lot of players using full crew cards face down instead of the small crew chips designed to go on a deckplate.  What recourse would a player have if their opponent (whether intentionally or unintentionally) had what amounted to a “deke” in this regard, such as a crew chip in a card that didn’t match? (ex: crew from a different set, like Bianco’s Haulers in a face down SCS crew card)  Technically the opponent shouldn’t have known what set the crew was from in the first place, but if a player is willingly going to show their cards with set affiliation by crew, it seems like fair game.  Essentially, would you consider that a “fair deke” under the house rule circumstances?

    A number of other odd permutations are possible as well.  Ex: Using a crew chip from the Caribbean set (with the different Pirate/English flag backs) in a Revolution card.  Can I ask them if it’s a crew from PotC vs. RV, or am I supposed to ignore the card around the chip because the chip is what should matter?

    #18277
    Woelf
    Moderator

    These questions technically involve a house rule where players don’t have to have the punched crew chips face down on their ships’ deckplates, so I understand if that makes it hard to give definitive answers.

    The last few years I’ve noticed a lot of players using full crew cards face down instead of the small crew chips designed to go on a deckplate.  What recourse would a player have if their opponent (whether intentionally or unintentionally) had what amounted to a “deke” in this regard, such as a crew chip in a card that didn’t match? (ex: crew from a different set, like Bianco’s Haulers in a face down SCS crew card)  Technically the opponent shouldn’t have known what set the crew was from in the first place, but if a player is willingly going to show their cards with set affiliation by crew, it seems like fair game.  Essentially, would you consider that a “fair deke” under the house rule circumstances?

    A number of other odd permutations are possible as well.  Ex: Using a crew chip from the Caribbean set (with the different Pirate/English flag backs) in a Revolution card.  Can I ask them if it’s a crew from PotC vs. RV, or am I supposed to ignore the card around the chip because the chip is what should matter?

    The square crew chit is the only thing that actually matters to the game, so I guess do your best to ignore whatever card it’s attached to if there’s any chance a player might have switched it out to hide what it might really be.

    If it becomes a problem, it’s well within the rights of the person organizing an event to require all players use the correct cards and/or not use the cards at all for indicating where crew are placed.

    #18293
    Xerecs
    Moderator

    I know its stated somewhere, but I can’t find where; Mysterious Island effects cannot be re-rolled (such with a re-roll crew like Coconut) because the roll technically isn’t being made for the ship, correct?

    #18295
    Woelf
    Moderator

    I know its stated somewhere, but I can’t find where; Mysterious Island effects cannot be re-rolled (such with a re-roll crew like Coconut) because the roll technically isn’t being made for the ship, correct?

    That’s correct.  You’d need something that specifically referred to rerolling islands.

    #18306
    Jared Nicholes
    Participant

    Ahoy everyone!

    I have a few game rules questions. I happened to be playing a game today and yesterday, a cursed fleet versus a French fleet. I would like some clarifications on some of the cards and some of the rules.

    The first question concerns the oceans edge card Davy Jones, which states, “limit. Once per turn, roll a D6. On a 1–4 you may give the ship an extra action: on a 5, you may give any ship you control an extra action: on a 6, you may give an enemy ship an action.”

    I assume this means if you roll a 6, you can move an enemy 5 masted ship into a reef to do damage?

    Second question. What I said above actually happened in the game. The five masted ship went into a reef by Davy Jones effect, and lost all its masts eventually. The question is, when a ship loses all its masts inside a reef, does that mean you remove half of the hull to show that it is shipwrecked? Can a shipwreck inside a reef be explored by any player?

    I’m just curious. It was an interesting game, and in the end, the cursed fleet actually won twice against the French fleet by knocking out all the French ships.

    Both questions/scenarios I stated actually happened in the game, by the way.

    Jared

    #18310
    Woelf
    Moderator

    The first question concerns the oceans edge card Davy Jones, which states, “limit. Once per turn, roll a D6. On a 1–4 you may give the ship an extra action: on a 5, you may give any ship you control an extra action: on a 6, you may give an enemy ship an action.”

    I assume this means if you roll a 6, you can move an enemy 5 masted ship into a reef to do damage?

    Yes, that’s one of many options you can do with that ability.

    Second question. What I said above actually happened in the game. The five masted ship went into a reef by Davy Jones effect, and lost all its masts eventually. The question is, when a ship loses all its masts inside a reef, does that mean you remove half of the hull to show that it is shipwrecked? Can a shipwreck inside a reef be explored by any player?

    The ship only becomes a wreck if it would take more damage than it has masts remaining.  Essentially, if the reef would have done enough damage to sink it.   If it takes exactly as much damage as it has mast remaining it only becomes a derelict, and can still be repaired (or towed).

    If a ship does become a wreck, it can be explored by any player.

    #18311
    Jared Nicholes
    Participant

    Awesome, thanks for letting me know.

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