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This is the start of a big topic that hopefully will see many replies over time. Assuming I do a 6th Pirates CSG Survey at some point, I plan to ask this same question and some ancillary ones.
Should Pirates CSG be Collectible Or Not? What do you think?
Check out the clip below from Pirates CSG Podcast #40.
I generally agree with what you all said in the podcast. Had Wizkids not been shut down in 08 and Pirates canceled then I would love for it to have continued as a collectible game. I enjoy the randomness of the pack opening and the collectible aspect of the game. But generic crew selection and other aspects of fleet building made it difficult at times with the complete randomness of the pack content. I don’t think I’ll ever have all 6 major factions balanced out with all the generic crew necessary.
So should it return I like the idea of a hybrid system where there is some degree of certainty and better miniature distribution but keep some aspects of the collectible alive.
[Personal example –Vassal is a good example of this, I have every ship at my disposal which is amazing but a brand new ship out of a pack even if it’s not amazing still makes me want to try to use it simply because it’s new. Knowing what I am getting would ruin part of that. ]
So should it return I like the idea of a hybrid system where there is some degree of certainty and better miniature distribution but keep some aspects of the collectible alive.
I agree. I think a box with 10 ships could have perhaps 8 guaranteed and then 2 random. I like having a 9/10 odds selection for essential generic crew (captain/helmsman/explorer/oarsman all on one card) but then having a 10% chance of getting the specialist card or a card with shipwright/cannoneer/musketeer/silver explorer on it. Although even a “best of both worlds” approach wouldn’t please everyone of course.
I think part of the reason I like the idea of it being less collectible is so people can’t say it’s dead all the time. 🙁 Gotten pretty tired of that over the years. I think part of the problem with restarting it the same as it was last time is the potential for another out of print event. Between advancing technology, other games (Naval Action, other naval board games, etc), and future recessions, I feel that making the game less centered around collectibility would be better for the game’s longevity. I’d prefer that over the potential short term profit of selling a lot of random packs for a potentially short period of time. (keeping in mind that at this point, the game has been out of print for about twice as long as it was in print)
Having arrived recently, I’ll throw in my two cents.
A hybrid system would be ideal in my books. I’d suggest the best way to achieve this is a mix between ‘base’ boxsets and ‘random’ card packs.
In a base box set, you get a generic crew, generic ships and maybe a couple of rare ships. But the box set should be everything you need to successfully and competitively play a game. There should be no need or requirement to buy anything further. This avoids a ‘pay to win’ feeling, ensures that after a certain financial outlay you have a competitive force and provides a great starting place for new players.
The random packs can contain some more specialised ships, crew, items etc. They may enhance one aspect of a strategy, but they are not in and of themselves ‘game winning’. Maybe some more zany ideas here. This would add that next level for players to move to after mastering the basics. It adds diversity to play and provides longevity to the game.
Having said this, I know that the random surprise of packs and the collecting aspect of the game were big hits with some people. Myself included I think. Not so much collecting, but the excitement that each pack could be anything! Realistically, random packs is a great marketing strategy too, as all collectable card games have already applied this tried and true formula. It encourages buying for the excitement, making pieces scale for rarity encourages purchasing. Collecting encourages purchasing. Let’s face it, at the heart of the game is a profit motivation and that is the driving factor. Having said that, I’ve seen Pokemon cards utilising the hybrid system successfully, so there is no reason it wouldn’t work.
Another big selling point of the original game was that you can play with one pack. A tiny outlay, give it a go then buy as much or little as you like. I thought and still think that was a neat idea.
@Shamsy: Thank you for the feedback!
The idea of a split distribution sounds kinda cool. I assume you would want the random packs to contain nothing you could find in the base box? (extras only, which would prevent duplicates at least at first)
Buying for excitement could work with an idea I had for starter packs/boxes – you know you’ll get everything you need to play, but the stuff inside is still semi-random. In a French box you might get one of their 2 or 3 rare 5 masters, rather than a specific one.
Yep, I think that’d be best. No duplication in the packs, at least not with ships. Crew are a little different as you may want several identical crew in a fleet, but I doubt you would want more than one of any given ship.
Even if the base box were to contain a random selection of ships as you suggest, but from a number of size/types, that would work. I don’t know the exact terminology, but you could have say 10 two mast, 6 three mast, 4 four mast and 2 five mast. Which ships is perhaps less important than having a well rounded and playable force that can remain competitive against someone with a huge collection.
Of everything, I think having the box set incorporate a known selection of generic crew is almost, or more important. Without captains, for example, you would be destroyed by an opposition who had those in abundance in their collection.
A bit rambling I know. I guess I’d summarise by saying a base box would have a good selection of competitive ships and enough generic crew that you could take on any fleet and still have a reasonable chance of winning. This is of course not good in terms of sales, as you may sell ten packs to someone looking for that one crew/ship. But it depends if people are collectors, competitive gamers, casual players or any category you wish to invent.
Of everything, I think having the box set incorporate a known selection of generic crew is almost, or more important. Without captains, for example, you would be destroyed by an opposition who had those in abundance in their collection.
Agreed; I think any future iteration of Pirates would definitely have to make useful generic crew abundant rather than relatively scarce.
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