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My confusion arose from the codes wording for duplicate UTs. “The no-duplicates rule applies to unique treasures only during setup, when placing them in the treasure pool.” This made me think that the treasure pool is where they had to be unique. Thought I’d just verify it here, thanks again.
How much does the order of kraken tentacles matter when constructing them? Should it be clockwise from the bottom left corner, or having the middle cannons on the deckplate be the innermost tentacles?
How much does the order of kraken tentacles matter when constructing them? Should it be clockwise from the bottom left corner, or having the middle cannons on the deckplate be the innermost tentacles?
The order doesn’t matter at all for those. You can place them wherever they fit.
Because they can only shoot something that’s surrounded, the target will always be within range of every tentacle, and removing specific ones won’t alter its lines of fire any any meaningful way.
Because they can only shoot something that’s surrounded, the target will always be within range of every tentacle, and removing specific ones won’t alter its lines of fire any any meaningful way.
Interesting. I was thinking more if the kraken got cancelled, and could therefore shoot at ships it wasn’t surrounding.
Even with the potential to be cancelled, there’s not really a defined “front” or starting point for the tentacle placement, and all the slots are the exact same size, so the exact positions don’t matter. I’ll add a line saying that to my notes for the possible future update.
From this answer:
The rule to reveal treasure immediately is carried over from the illustrated rules, and ties into the “more than half” rule for ending the game. It’s not exactly the best way to handle the endgame, so feel free to continue ignoring those rules and keep using the multiplayer rules for everything instead.
1. Was not using the “reveal treasure at HI’s” intended to be official guidance for 1v1 standard? I generally agree, I just want to make sure I play things right when I call a game “competitive standard”/no house rules/etc, for 1v1 games. Do you know if Wizkids’ intent was to use the multiplayer rules for this as well, and it only made it into the Start Here rules because it might help brand new players understand things?
2. Am I correct in saying that the “starting gold value” is always 30? What if a player has 22 gold on their HI but only 12 of it came from the original 30 – does that trigger the “more than half the starting gold” endgame condition in a 2 player game? (Code makes me think no to the second, just want to confirm)
3. An island contains Blood Money, Pandora’s Box, and Jailhouse Dog. Must you load Jailhouse Dog in order to use it (therefore not being able to interrupt and cancel the Pandora’s Box), or can you use it immediately because it’s already revealed per Blood Money?
4. Can you prevent a ram by shooting off a mast that was rammed? (ex: ramming the bowsprit of another ship and then accidentally shooting it away)
1. Was not using the “reveal treasure at HI’s” intended to be official guidance for 1v1 standard? I generally agree, I just want to make sure I play things right when I call a game “competitive standard”/no house rules/etc, for 1v1 games. Do you know if Wizkids’ intent was to use the multiplayer rules for this as well, and it only made it into the Start Here rules because it might help brand new players understand things?
I think it was intended as the standard, at least for two-players, so that’s what you should use if you want to stick to the technically-pure-original-official rules. It obviously breaks if you add more players, and the official (via PC) multiplayer rules work better for two-player as well, so I don’t think too many players would complain if you just used that as the standard for all player counts.
2. Am I correct in saying that the “starting gold value” is always 30? What if a player has 22 gold on their HI but only 12 of it came from the original 30 – does that trigger the “more than half the starting gold” endgame condition in a 2 player game? (Code makes me think no to the second, just want to confirm)
If you’re going with a standard setup, with both players contributing coins with a printed sum of 15, it’ll be 30. The first player to hit 16+ on their home island would win that game, regardless of where the gold came from or how much extra was left elsewhere in play.
If you change the starting total, the “more than half” value adjusts along with it.
3. An island contains Blood Money, Pandora’s Box, and Jailhouse Dog. Must you load Jailhouse Dog in order to use it (therefore not being able to interrupt and cancel the Pandora’s Box), or can you use it immediately because it’s already revealed per Blood Money?
Jailhouse Dog would have to wait, because it loads face down, making it optional to load (even if it is somehow already face up). Blood Money and Pandora’s Box will both have to be fully resolved before you have the option to take the Dog.
You could only use it in this scenario if it was already on your ship prior to finding the other two.
4. Can you prevent a ram by shooting off a mast that was rammed? (ex: ramming the bowsprit of another ship and then accidentally shooting it away)
This relates directly to the rule about pinning and mast removal/repair. As long as the ships made contact during the movement portion, the contact/ram is still considered to have occurred even if the pieces making the physical contact get removed before you fully resolve it. (The Switchblade ability also relies on this.)
If a ship with the S-Exploring ability is L away from an island and has a base move of L remaining, can it move to dock with the island, using the S-Explore during the move segment and then taking advantage to explore the island as soon as it docks?
Once per turn, if this ship is within S of an island, you may mark the island as explored without docking at it. The island becomes unexplored in regards to all other players.
If a hoist loads the Trees UT, can it remain onboard? Should it say “must remain face-down”? As is, it seems like a ship (even if not a hoist) could load it (face up I suppose), and then use it in the middle of battle to spring back to life as a free action.
Trees may remain face-down on its island if the ship that explores that island has all of its masts. When Trees is revealed, fully repair this ship, and then remove Trees from the game.
Radix59 had a question from the Discord server:
Captain Charles Richard is worded slightly differently than Jonah, Robinson, and Princess Arii. They all state that crew always take up cargo spaces, while Richards states that they still take up cargo space – without the always. Since this was printed in Savage Shores, after the rest of the others, I would expect that this wording would be deliberately different – thereby allowing crew that don’t take up cargo space to still function aboard the ship. The “still” to me implies that the crew cargo interactions would function normally as if Richards was not aboard. Would this be an accurate way to interpret this?
If a ship with the S-Exploring ability is L away from an island and has a base move of L remaining, can it move to dock with the island, using the S-Explore during the move segment and then taking advantage to explore the island as soon as it docks?
You have to use that ability either before or after a segment, not in the middle of one. In this case, the ship could dock and then use the ability, but because it docked first, it wouldn’t get to explore for free.
If a hoist loads the Trees UT, can it remain onboard? Should it say “must remain face-down”? As is, it seems like a ship (even if not a hoist) could load it (face up I suppose), and then use it in the middle of battle to spring back to life as a free action.
The “may” gives the option to either leave it on the island facedown, or reveal it and apply the effect immediately. If you loaded it with a Hoist (or even Intermediario), you’d still have the option to put it back on the island, but otherwise you’d have to reveal it. If the ship that got it was undamaged, the Trees would simply remove themselves from the game.
There’s no option to load it without revealing it.
Radix59 had a question from the Discord server:
Captain Charles Richard is worded slightly differently than Jonah, Robinson, and Princess Arii. They all state that crew always take up cargo spaces, while Richards states that they still take up cargo space – without the always. Since this was printed in Savage Shores, after the rest of the others, I would expect that this wording would be deliberately different – thereby allowing crew that don’t take up cargo space to still function aboard the ship. The “still” to me implies that the crew cargo interactions would function normally as if Richards was not aboard. Would this be an accurate way to interpret this?
I have no idea why the wording on that one was changed (and honestly had never even noticed), but it’s meant to be the exact same effect, so treat it the same as all of the others that came before.
I can’t recall if any other abilities use the word “still” in the same way, but for this one at least, it should count at the same level as “always”.
Are the choices on when the additional 5 points from 0LR+5 crew determined in the same order as the player turn order? Just want to make sure I get the order right. Ex: Player 1 places all crew, then adds their +5 (which may include events or equipment). Player 2 places all crew, then their +5 choices. Then both players place any equipment (?). Or does Player 1 get to see the layout of Player 2’s face down crew choices before they decide their +5 choices?
Are the choices on when the additional 5 points from 0LR+5 crew determined in the same order as the player turn order? Just want to make sure I get the order right. Ex: Player 1 places all crew, then adds their +5 (which may include events or equipment). Player 2 places all crew, then their +5 choices. Then both players place any equipment (?). Or does Player 1 get to see the layout of Player 2’s face down crew choices before they decide their +5 choices?
The precise timing has never really been defined, but the way I’ve always assumed it to work was that all players built and placed their standard fleets first, then any players with one of those +5 crew would get an extra phase of sorts where they add up to 5 more points of stuff. The idea was that you could see what ships/nationalities the other players were using and how many crew, etc. they had before making your choice on the extras.
Considering that it’s usually going to be just crew being added and they generally aren’t getting revealed immediately, all players with a +5 can usually make their choices simultaneously without it really mattering too much. However, if it is an issue somehow, the choice and placement of the extras should follow the same player order established for initial fleet placement.
Links are rules, not abilities, correct?
Correct, at least the normal ones printed on the cards separate from ability text; they could technically be overridden by abilities. (Nothing in the official game does that, but maybe customs could.)
The small handful of crew who have links provided by an ability count the same as any other ability, so they could be cancelled or copied.
If a kraken is surrounding a ship and is moved L by Tsuro, does the surrounded ship move with it or does it break the surround?
If a kraken is surrounding a ship and is moved L by Tsuro, does the surrounded ship move with it or does it break the surround?
It’s a weird situation, because both the Kraken and the surrounded ship are basically locked in contact with each other from all directions. So while you can technically target either of them independently with that ability, neither can actually be moved without making contact (again) with the other.
In other words, Tsuro’s ability can’t do anything to the kraken or the surrounded ship.
Correct, at least the normal ones printed on the cards separate from ability text; they could technically be overridden by abilities.
Would Jonah override a Link then?
Pirate Code, Ability Conflict Heirarchy, pg 15
When an ability and a rule conflict the ability always
takes precedence regardless of the terms used, unless specifically stated otherwise.The above is leading me to believe that he (and others with that ability) would override a Link. For example, Jonah is on the Golden Medusa (RV003) with her Linked crew, Lady Baptiste (RV018). Does the Link not function properly or would Baptiste still link, providing a cargo space that she then fills, per link rules and the ability of Jonah?
How would a crew linking situation be handled with Jonah, say Fidel and Gaspar Zuan on the same ship with Jonah. Would they still effectively take up one cargo space, or would Jonah force them to both take up a cargo space?
Would Jonah override a Link then?
Pirate Code, Ability Conflict Heirarchy, pg 15
When an ability and a rule conflict the ability always
takes precedence regardless of the terms used, unless specifically stated otherwise.The above is leading me to believe that he (and others with that ability) would override a Link. For example, Jonah is on the Golden Medusa (RV003) with her Linked crew, Lady Baptiste (RV018). Does the Link not function properly or would Baptiste still link, providing a cargo space that she then fills, per link rules and the ability of Jonah?
How would a crew linking situation be handled with Jonah, say Fidel and Gaspar Zuan on the same ship with Jonah. Would they still effectively take up one cargo space, or would Jonah force them to both take up a cargo space?
There’s actually no interaction at all between Jonah’s ability and links, because links ADD space to a ship instead of making crew take up less.
A crew adding a space and then immediately using it gives the same effective result as a crew not taking up space ( = more crew on the ship), but in terms of game mechanisms it completely changes how they interact with other effects.
Jonah will block the “takes up no space” part of abilities like Oarsman, Master Bianco, Treasure Ship, and Akua Lapu, but completely ignores links like Lady B or Fidel+Gaspar.
It’s a weird situation, because both the Kraken and the surrounded ship are basically locked in contact with each other from all directions. So while you can technically target either of them independently with that ability, neither can actually be moved without making contact (again) with the other.
In other words, Tsuro’s ability can’t do anything to the kraken or the surrounded ship.
This confuses me a bit. I’m pretty sure there are some ship types (especially 1 masted sloops) that could be pulled from out of the kraken’s grasp without touching any part of it other than the kraken’s base. Is touching the base enough to cause the ship to be immediately “stuck” again? I also figured it would work because in the Code it talks about how outside forces moving a ship can apply even if the target is pinned or entangled.
Related questions from Personofsecrets at the discord server:
How might the Scorpion and Switchblade ships interact with L move?
Does this also mean that L moving always requires at least one path that isn’t blocked by another ship?
This confuses me a bit. I’m pretty sure there are some ship types (especially 1 masted sloops) that could be pulled from out of the kraken’s grasp without touching any part of it other than the kraken’s base. Is touching the base enough to cause the ship to be immediately “stuck” again? I also figured it would work because in the Code it talks about how outside forces moving a ship can apply even if the target is pinned or entangled.
The Kraken’s ability to surround other ships breaks more rules than most abilities, which also messes with a lot of other interactions. The biggest rule break is that it’s the only thing in the game that allows two ships to occupy the same space at the same time, and the ability is needed to both maintain that rule break and to resolve it.
The mover ability of Tsuro (and similar) doesn’t work because it can’t push one ship through another, even if there would be enough physical space at the end of the L-distance to place the target ship. The Kraken’s base does count as part of the Kraken even though it mostly only shows water, and any outside force the tried to move the surrounded should would have to move the surrounded ship through that base, so the ship has nowhere to go.
(Cancelling Kraken creates yet another weird exception; technically you’d be sitting on an illegal situation while it’s inactive, but it would break the game to just instantly destroy the ship and/or the kraken, so the solution is to allow the surrounded ship to move out normally. If it does move, it must exit entirely or it would automatically become surrounded again as soon as the keyword reactivated. You could use Tsuro’s ability during that time instead, but only if the ship can be moved entirely outside of the kraken’s base.)
Entangled doesn’t prevent the use of outside movers because the Sargasso Seas don’t automatically prevent things from passing through; the effect is what (maybe) does that, not the terrain piece itself.
Related questions from Personofsecrets at the discord server:
How might the Scorpion and Switchblade ships interact with L move?
Scorpion doesn’t prevent outside movers because it still follows the standard rules for pinning, which the movers can break. The blade simply changes how the pinning occurs in the first place.
Swithblades don’t interact with outside movers in any meaningful way, because you have to give it a move action use the blades. They don’t trigger at all if something else moves the ship.
Does this also mean that L moving always requires at least one path that isn’t blocked by another ship?
In short, yes. It’s essentially the same situation that occurs when an iceberg moves. If it can’t go the full distance without passing through something, you push it as far as it can go and then stop. You’re not forced to pick a direction that allows for the full L-distance, and technically you’re not forced to move the full L even if the path is entirely clear, similar to how segments can always be shorted as desired while taking a move action.
The Code, pg 3, “Derelict, Sunk, and Wrecked”
A ship is “sunk” when it is hit by a cannon shot and has no masts remaining that can be removed. A sunken ship is removed from the game, unless some ability or effect allows it to return to play.
–emphasis added–
The Code, pg 4, “Removed from the game v Eliminated”
“Removed from the game” refers to a game piece that has been taken out of play without necessarily being killed or destroyed. Once a game piece has been removed from the game it cannot be returned to play unless a rule or ability specifically allows it.
Ability text of Runes of Odin, Frozen North 096
Load this treasure face down. When revealed, place an iceberg from outside the game anywhere in the play area not within S of an island. If the iceberg touches any ship, remove the ship (and any crew and treasure aboard her) from the game. Then remove Runes of Odin from the game.
–emphasis added–
My question is; does Runes of Odin technically sink a ship, or is something else happening?
My question is; does Runes of Odin technically sink a ship, or is something else happening?
As written, Runes of Odin skips the “sinking” part and completely removes the ship plus anything else on it. It will not trigger Eternal, and will not split treasure in a two-player game.
Don’t mess with the Allfather.
In the Master Keyword List, Mercenary is listed as: “This ship cannot dock at its own home island, and must begin the game S away from its home island.”
In the scans of MI and SS rules, it is listed differently, especially that it cannot dock at any home island. Which one is correct, and when did Wizkids’ intent change if the MKL version is correct?
Thanks!
In the Master Keyword List, Mercenary is listed as: “This ship cannot dock at its own home island, and must begin the game S away from its home island.”
In the scans of MI and SS rules, it is listed differently, especially that it cannot dock at any home island. Which one is correct, and when did Wizkids’ intent change if the MKL version is correct?
Thanks!
That slight change in wording really doesn’t really matter for general use, because you already can’t dock at opposing home islands.
What the subtle difference in the MKL does is un-break Le Jongleur (MI-209), which technically wouldn’t be able to use its built-in HI-Raider ability at all if you took them exactly as WK had them written. A side effect is that also allows you to put an Ex-Pat on some other ship with that ability and still use it, but that’s minor to the point of being almost irrelevant.
What the subtle difference in the MKL does is un-break Le Jongleur (MI-209), which technically wouldn’t be able to use its built-in HI-Raider ability at all if you took them exactly as WK had them written. A side effect is that also allows you to put an Ex-Pat on some other ship with that ability and still use it, but that’s minor to the point of being almost irrelevant.
This would also apply to Ex-Pat crew that do have HI-Raiding as an ability, such as Yeshaji Angria, correct?
This would also apply to Ex-Pat crew that do have HI-Raiding as an ability, such as Yeshaji Angria, correct?
Yes! He’s actually the main one it affects, because Le Jongleur is terrible and there’s no reason to use it aside from proving that you can.
I was 99% sure there was a crew that had the combo, but couldn’t recall the name offhand, and somehow missed him when skimming through the master spreadsheet.
What the subtle difference in the MKL does is un-break Le Jongleur (MI-209), which technically wouldn’t be able to use its built-in HI-Raider ability at all if you took them exactly as WK had them written. A side effect is that also allows you to put an Ex-Pat on some other ship with that ability and still use it, but that’s minor to the point of being almost irrelevant.
So the MKL wording is the official, correct wording?
So the MKL wording is the official, correct wording?
You can consider it the same level of official-ness as the post-WK version of the Pirate Code, because it does include small tweaks and wording clarifications throughout to better match with the PC.
They’re technically not “official-official” because they were never published by WK, but they reflect what they would have (or should have) been, had the game continued longer.
With Towing Option #1 (on page 10), can you initiate the tow, then have the towed ship explore the towing ship before any move segments are used? In my most recent game I assumed you could not because you have to complete the move action that started the tow in the first place.
With Towing Option #1 (on page 10), can you initiate the tow, then have the towed ship explore the towing ship before any move segments are used? In my most recent game I assumed you could not because you have to complete the move action that started the tow in the first place.
Your assumption was correct. Taking the derelict under tow occurs as part of the move action, so you have to complete that before either ship can explore the other.
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