November 26, 2019 at 7:11 PM #10383BenKeymaster
Think about free online/phone games, constructible parts not suitable for young children, ships “easily breakable”, potential economic downturn, decline of physical retail stores, Wizkids may look at MT and realize there is no demand (look at everything I’ve done, and not much to show for it); supporting digital solutions is a good way to support the game coming back.
(this is a “food for thought” idea I had a while back)October 1, 2021 at 8:56 AM #13985AndrewParticipant
I was just thinking about the digital option of Pirates CSG, and potential for it coming back as a cellphone or computer game.
On one hand, I agree that it would be easier from a manufacturing point for whoever brings it back, and it would be more readily available.
However, I think that many people are feeling more and more the lack of tangible experience in an ever more digital world. There is a massive disconnect from the enjoyment of opening a physical pack of cards/ships, and feeling them, smelling them, and getting the experience of holding them and appreciating their beauty in person, and having them on your actual table or shelf; to having a digital pack opening on your tablet or computer screen. I know that MTG is having some luck with their online/computer arena, but I for one can’t get behind it. I haven’t bought any MTG cards in along time, but I tried the computer based game and pack opening, and it felt very cheap. Consider the difference between a lover’s physical embrace, compared to a digital cam show style experience. I for one prefer the tangible, to the intangible.
I also think that if Pirates CSG were to come back, if they went only digital, they might be opening up to a “new” younger audience, but they’d be fighting a massive uphill battle against a literal sea of “free” phone, tablet, and PC games. Also, I think that they’d be losing a lot of core customers who would be the core of their intial consumer base. I would certainly try a new digital, 3D modern graphic version of Pirates CSG, but it would only be for nostalgic purposes, which I ultimately would probably find depressing, in an ever more digital world, with social disconnect (especially now because of social distancing because of Covid). On the other hand, I have far more money to buy games like this now, than I ever did when I was a kid. I imagine a good number of core fans would spend a small fortune on this franchise were it resurrected.
If they could find a cheaper or more cost effective manufacturer, and could have the old fan base support it via social media, and there was some decent online advertising and buzz in the gaming community, I think that they could have a good shot at resurrecting the game into the same format as before. Yes there are fewer comic book stores and the like than ever before. There are however more online stores and online buying power than ever before. This could even lower the cost of the overhead for selling these cards. If Pirates CSG was available predominantly via Amazon, Walmart, Target, and a few other independent retailers that wanted to pick it up, I could see it doing very well. Especially if there were some new cool ideas to come out in production.
First production could be a reprint of all the original editions. I for one would buy a small pallet of each edition. lol. Then they could expand in a number of various ideas. I for one would love more ghost ships, zombies, St Elmo’s fire, and more treasures and gear.
All that being said, maybe I’m just becoming an old man, with a glowing heart for better more social times, and lost tabletop adventures with lost friends. Just plug me into the matrix already. lol.
Anyways, maybe Covid will bring a resurgence in table top gaming, and living in a tangible social world. I hope that in the future, when we go from bust back to boom, games like this are allowed to make a solid comeback. If I won the lottery tomorrow, this would certainly be something which I would invest in.
Either way, it’s certainly interesting food for thought. Cheers!October 1, 2021 at 12:04 PM #13986DBARParticipant
I have to say that I mostly agree with Andrew here. The only benefit of a digital version of the game that I see is that it would do the same thing vassal does now. i.e. let players from around the world play together. Perhaps it would bring some new players to the game but in my experience, with tabletop games going digital it won’t help much. Personally, I wouldn’t be interested in a digital version at all. I already have a list of video games a mile long to finish. The last thing I want or need is another digital game to take up more of my time. I turn to tabletop games to get away from my computer. I feel like many other people are the same. It’s so nice to get together with people and have a social experience of playing a tabletop game. That experience does not translate well to an online environment.
On the manufacturing side, I just don’t believe that you couldn’t make it work. I do believe that WizKids had a hard time in the past and that for them they would not have been able to continue. I also believe they ran themselves into the ground by making so many sets so fast. That means they were constantly changing production. They had to be buying new dies all the time. If they would have adopted a slower release schedule they may have been able to salvage things. Look at the number of miniature games on the market. Most of the successful ones do not release new stuff that often. The ones that do have been around long enough to have the capital to throw where they need it. So again I don’t think for a second that manufacturing would be the primary issue.
Ben, at this point I have listened to most of your podcasts and I had some time to think about this. Why are you so adamant about Pirates returning as Pirates CSG? Why is it so important to you that it returns in the same form under the same name? I just feel like you could do more and go farther if the same or similar game was resurrected under a new name with revised rules and its own sets. Like if there were another game that was a clone of Pirates CSG but was still actively worked on and in production I would go play that. At the end of the day, it’s not the Pirates CSG name or legacy that keeps me interested it’s that in my opinion there is nothing else like this game on the market. It’s like you said above “(look at everything I’ve done, and not much to show for it)” I just don’t think the old WizKids folks want to be involved. Many of them probably thought the game was cool and interesting but at the end of the day, it was a paycheck. They were being paid to make a game that sells. And it did sell but the level of passion that the community has is not there.
Sorry to ramble on lolOctober 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM #14009BenKeymaster
I would certainly try a new digital, 3D modern graphic version of Pirates CSG, but it would only be for nostalgic purposes
@commodore-starbuck: Is that because you played the SOE version back in the day, or because the “new” feeling of new game pieces would be nostalgic? (or something else) I agree with most of your points.
Why are you so adamant about Pirates returning as Pirates CSG? Why is it so important to you that it returns in the same form under the same name? I just feel like you could do more and go farther if the same or similar game was resurrected under a new name with revised rules and its own sets. Like if there were another game that was a clone of Pirates CSG but was still actively worked on and in production I would go play that.
@dbar: 1. Semi-lifelong pipe dream that I don’t want to give up on. I love pursuing it. If it doesn’t work, I’ve had incredible memories, games, and friends from it, not to mention a ton of learning about various topics.
2. Legal and arguably even moral issues. I wouldn’t feel great making a “clone” and not giving credit where its due to the original designers. Not that I’m unwilling to take that route, just doesn’t seem quite right. But in addition, the closer the game is to the original (which is the game I know and love), the more likely Wizkids/NECA would have reason to sue or at least do a cease and desist order from copyright/IP infringement.
Ben, at this point I have listened to most of your podcasts…
I just don’t think the old WizKids folks want to be involved.
As podcasts 41,42,43, and 45 showed, so far the former Wizkids employees that worked on the game did show interest in returning to it. Maybe it’s impossible to get them back on board, or there is too little interest at current Wizkids/NECA for anything to happen even in the future, but that won’t stop me from trying. 🙂October 4, 2021 at 7:32 AM #14010AndrewParticipant
Hey Ben and DBAR,
I guess that as far as nostalgia goes for bringing me into a digital version of Pirates CSG, it would only be because I enjoyed the game so much in my youth. If they had everything I ever wanted and more in a digital version, I’d probably find it disheartening that I couldn’t get these new ships, crew, and events for my tabletop experience. This is the same reason I played the MTG PC game for a couple of hours in one single sitting, and never went back, and deleted the software. I don’t need or want another virtual game experience. I’m more likely to pay a small fortune for existing Pirates CSG packs, and another fortune on shipping and duties to my remote and rural house in Canada, than I am to put a handful of dollars into another virtual experience. I have to agree with DBAR, that I also have an ever growing list of video games that I haven’t completed; I am far more likely to play tabletop (even by myself for each fleet) than I am to keep looking at another computer/tv/tablet/phone screen.
My next fear is that if they brought a digital game to Pirates CSG, they would put in mechanics that would end up screwing it up. I like being able to set my own rules, use my own dice, set my own ambiance, and play at my own pace. For example, I enjoyed Red Dead Redemption, yet am endlessly annoyed with RDR2. I haven’t played in years as a matter of fact, and probably will; never finish it. Here’s why: I am a home owner, in the Canadian wilderness. I have an endless list of chores and maintenance that I need to do to my house, my yard, my machines, vehicles, etc. I am a grown man, with my own cooking and eating to do, groceries to buy, and animals to attend to. Also my own relationships I need to keep in order, and time and emotional investment to my wife, friends, and neighbours in my community. I hate that in RDR2, I have to brush my horse, find a bathtub to bathe in, change my clothes when it starts to snow, oil and clean my firearms, get enough sleep, etc. This just becomes wild west life simulator. I don’t have enough hours in my day to brush my own animals, butcher my own meat, or run my own errands. Why would I commit time to do it on screen?
What I’m getting at is, I fear that a digital Pirates CSG might include such micromanaging, and I despise that in games now. I don’t want to repair a hole in the hull of my ship, have to sail around looking for pitch and fiber and lumber. I have to repair holes in my actual house and foundation, and drive around to hardware stores looking for lumber and screws. I don’t want a video game doing that. lol.
I also hate that most games are online for the majority of the content. I don’t want online play, or to subjected to the whims of people online. I live where I do, to get away from most people. I can play twenty minutes of Halo online to get called enough racial slurs for a lifetime. lol. I also don’t need that, as I’m not twelve anymore. I want more intellectually challenging experiences, that I find only available to me when playing certain games, like Pirates CSG. Hence why I am so excited to begin playing this again. I think that this game is much better enjoyed tangibly, rather than intangibly. So if there is ever anything I could do to help motivate the Wizkids/NECA current employees to pick this back up, I certainly be happy to contribute to that. The world needs more games like this, and more opportunities for people to have social experiences away from computers, tablets, and television screens. So Ben, keep up the good fight.
Anyways, sorry for rambling on, I clearly need more coffee. lol.
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