Kickstarter/etc to buy rights to the game from NECA?

I guess the big issue I see would be that it would make you the owner of the license not some other corporation.

Indeed, I would likely set up some kind of corporation to get past legal loopholes and whatnot.  It is confusing and I’d have to do a lot of research – even if funds were somehow raised to convince them to sell the license, where does it get “placed” legally?

not that you personally are the issue just that once the ball is in your court where do we go from there?

I certainly like the idea of making money on Pirates after all I’ve done, but honestly I also like the idea of somehow making it public domain so anyone can make anything and nobody gets sued for it.  XD

Would kickstarter also include money to buy the capital necessary to produce more pirates?

That’s where it seems like a community this small would have trouble.  Who knows what NECA would even want for the license to make Pirates CSG stuff – it seems like $10,000+ or in the tens of thousands would be a bare minimum given the prior success of the product and what could be done with it long term.  It would be devastating to somehow raise a huge amount only for them to not fork it over for nearly any amount for whatever reason(s).  I would imagine that producing enough sets/cards to turn a small profit would cost far more than the license.

How does supporting buying the license further help the return of pirates?

I mean if the license were in the hands of the community or public domain, myself and/or others certainly would have a Kickstarter by now to make the game again.

I know if means we have the potential to make new ones but I think you would want to sell a broader package than just the license purchasing.

Great point, I just wanted to throw the idea out there.  The legal stuff is the first hurdle, I wasn’t thinking much past that because even buying the license would seem to be an enormous sum.

I would almost see a kickstarter for raising funds to start a new and separate pirates csg company being more likely than just buying the license. That way people who support the Kickstart would/could become shareholders in the new company. Then with the purchase of the license and a small set up for printing you could revive the game and just sell via online purchases or whatnot to people and of course those who helped support the company.

That makes sense.

I hate to admit it, but I’m not that hopeful about this, at least not in the short term.  I can hardly get the community to post on forums or answer messages, let alone raise thousands of dollars.  I just want to force the issue a bit and get people’s opinions on what is even remotely possible from a starting point.

There is however, a lot of people who have nostalgia for this game, and there is not a CSG on the market currently. I feel like the fact that there is no other CSG on the market is the key to bringing this or a similar game back.

I didn’t know that, but I feel like the nostalgia factor would be at least as big a factor as the CSG thing.

This is entirely anecdotal, but after posting a picture of my pirates collection to my Snapchat story, I received atleast 3-4 messages expresssing nostalgia for the game.

keep in mind I only have 30~ or so friends and none of the people who messaged me play any sort of tabletop games at present.

Exactly; that’s great to hear!!  Hopefully you could get them back into the game!  Although in my experience, a lot of people seem to have moved on permanently and don’t like hearing that it’s now out of print.

I think the idea to create a new Pirates company and have investors be shareholders is a good idea, at least for marketing your pitch to people who might want to donate money to you. It would be an extremely expensive venture, especially considering how Wizkids went under in part because the Pirates packs were so expensive to produce for the value they were sold for.

You’ll need to have a solid business plan worked out and an airtight case done before you go up to anybody with donation requests, much less the title-holder company. I don’t know if it can be done, but I would look into it if there’s no possibility of a comeback happening and you feel invested enough.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the feedback.

Is cardstock sturdy enough?

Imagine new “expansions” of the game instead of packs you buy but a picture pack you download and print out. A bit of DIY to build them, and play.

Indeed, Woelf and others have discussed things like that in the past, especially with stickers.

The older ships could be the collectible part of the game with perhaps some of the created sold to less handy players?

What do you mean by that last part?

I have made several ships now out of 3 differant materials.

Which materials? (sorry if you have already said in a previous thread)

Indeed, the thinner cardstock seems like it would be flimsy and unable to fit together tight enough for ships to stay constructed.

I wonder what materials Ben has tried myself. I wonder if the durable plastic from something like a sterilite tote with graphics glues on or a decal might take a bit more abuse then styrene.

I was asking the question to Ed; I haven’t tried building my own ships out of alternate materials.  That kind of plastic would be durable but the scale of the ships would probably change since it’s thick and chunkier.  I’m fine with the durability of the ships so I have no problem with styrene.

But as to the topic of this thread, there would likely not need to buy any rights to come up with a simple fan art diy style that you could make many ships in a afternoon with basic materials.

True; it probably gets more problematic when you try to make a profit off of it or announce a community-driven set as “official”.

A fan version should be easy enough to start, given that imagery and trademarked elements don’t find their way into this version.

Hmmm… this is starting to remind me more and more of the previous attempt at a fan-made set that got bogged down with the legal troubles and actually coming up with funds to make anything.  I think it could be hard for the community to reach a consensus on what to make “official”, though the community has changed a bit over time.

A 3D printed version could work but would remove the building aspect and would need to be painted and sanded, so buildable cardboard makes the most sense.

One thing I’ve wondered about is 3D printing that could make cards just like the ones we have, with cuts to make the pieces punchable.  Or, have the printer make each of the pieces of a ship so it can still be constructible.

If you ask for donations instead of selling the cardboard, you might be able to evade some legal trouble.

Interesting idea; anyone else have thoughts/knowledge on this?

I have used cardstock, plastic and cardboard all successfully but I like plastic and cardstock the most. the 5 mast ship in my profile image is cardstock.

What kind of plastic?  Do you know the thickness of it? (or where you got it from) Do you know the thickness of the cardstock?  Does the cardstock ship fit together better or worse than the Wizkids styrene ships? (in terms of mast/slot looseness)

I used old gift cards so millimeters thick and I used old business cards for the cardstock it was even thinner. The holes I sliced by razor so it was a really snug fit but if I messed up it was loose.

OK interesting, thank you for the specifics!  Did you cut the gift card plastic with a utility knife or some other blade?  It does make sense to use materials like that, I personally would just prefer a less crude solution if I could use the time to play with my existing ships instead.

IMO the only way to do this would be to get an agreement/contract with NECA ahead of time to purchase the rights. Only then would you start a KS to raise the funds. If you just randomly started a KS to purchase something you have no idea if they even want to sell, I can’t imagine anyone backing it.

So if you’re serious, start at step 1 and see if they’re even interested in selling, and for how much. If they’re not, you’re dooming yourself to wasted energy.

Makes sense, thanks for the feedback.  I’ve messaged NECA a few times on Facebook in the past and (along with more recent canned responses) got the now-infamous (to me at least) “we don’t have the license to Pirates” response that spawned the wild goose chase in 2017.  I just messaged them again now telling them about the podcast with Mike Selinker and how he would like to work on the game again if it came back and he was asked.

There are a lot of good game design groups on FB and elsewhere that have troves of lessons about making/publishing a game on KS, if you get to that point.

Thanks for the tips!  I’d much prefer to simply relaunch Pirates, between having no prior game design experience and not really wanting to just copy Pirates as much as possible while dodging legal stuff.