Rules for thought #17

This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Rick 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #2469

    Ben
    Keymaster

    Now that the Rules survey has some results (36 responses as of this post), I think it would be a good idea to discuss some various options in detail.

    -Only automatic unloading at home islands?  (choose at forts)

    I’m not sure that this would have a big effect, since gold is not unloaded at forts all that often during games in my experience.

    This next topic is not about the rules of the game, but certainly something that’s worth discussing.

    It is important that the game remain random and collectible. I would not be interested in a relaunch if it is done in a living card game or similar non-random format. (hardcore collector)

    I disagree to some extent.  I think the game could be more profitable as a collectible game, but the collectible nature of the game is both a major problem for some people and one of the biggest reasons people say it’s “dead”.

    What do you think of these ideas?

    #2526

    Xerecs
    Participant

    -Only automatic unloading at home islands?  (choose at forts)

    I’m not sure that this would have a big effect, since gold is not unloaded at forts all that often during games in my experience.

    Same here. I thought automatic unloading at home islands was already part of the rules though? It’s why gold factory fleets need to unload one coin at a time, since all of a ships coins would be unloaded at once.

     

    This next topic is not about the rules of the game, but certainly something that’s worth discussing.

    It is important that the game remain random and collectible. I would not be interested in a relaunch if it is done in a living card game or similar non-random format. (hardcore collector)

    I disagree to some extent.  I think the game could be more profitable as a collectible game, but the collectible nature of the game is both a major problem for some people and one of the biggest reasons people say it’s “dead”.

     

    Why do you say that the collectable nature is a problem? I’ve never seen it as a problem or an obstacle.

    I would agree that the game is best as a collectable ‘card game’, and that random draws and packs are the better way to go.

    Question though, what’s a ‘living card game’?

    #2528

    Ben
    Keymaster

    Automatic unloading at HOME IS part of rules, this is about forts.  As I said, OTHER people think the collectible nature is a problem; I’m mostly fine with it.  There are some threads at BGG that have people commenting on the issues they have. (more money to get what you need, randomness/duplicates/lack of generic crew can be frustrating, hardcore boardgame players don’t want to collect, etc)

    Google is your friend.

    #2728

    Woelf
    Participant

    Posting while I can…

     

    -Only automatic unloading at home islands?  (choose at forts)

    I’m not sure that this would have a big effect, since gold is not unloaded at forts all that often during games in my experience.

    The way forts are intended to work, as a sort of secondary home island, it would make the most sense to have the same rule apply to both.

    The automatic/mandatory unloading as home has brought up a few issues over the years (mostly when interacting with a few key abilities), so I’d rather that rule get scrapped entirely.  Make unloading require an actual [explore?] action instead, or at least make it something that has to be actively triggered by a player beyond just arriving.

    This next topic is not about the rules of the game, but certainly something that’s worth discussing.

    It is important that the game remain random and collectible. I would not be interested in a relaunch if it is done in a living card game or similar non-random format. (hardcore collector)

    I disagree to some extent.  I think the game could be more profitable as a collectible game, but the collectible nature of the game is both a major problem for some people and one of the biggest reasons people say it’s “dead”

    Making games “collectible” is all about profit.  Technically it does allow for a less expensive entry into a game, but whatever revenue may be lost to people who never go beyond that is more than made up by the people who keep re-buying the same things over and over in blind/random packs so they can get their hands on the most competitive pieces and/or complete their sets.  It’s a terrible system, but it works, and in many cases works extremely well.

    Non-random has its issues too, depending on how it’s done.   The same greed factor the drives collectible games can come right back in with non-random when a company pieces out every possible thing into mini expansions – look at FFG’s X-Wing game.  I’m sure the game is excellent and lots of fun to play, but having to buy literally every ship beyond a “starter set” at $15 (or more!) each is ridiculous.

    Personally I greatly prefer when you get everything in a single box, or a main box with a couple optional expansions to break up the cost a bit.   Pirates kinda tried that with the Davy Jones game, but that was a mess entirely its own.  Replace the board with some nice individual islands (nothing too fancy, but better than the thin cardstock), keep the more-or-less real rules instead of the dumbed-down alternate set, then in throw a bunch more (actually) balanced ships, crews, etc. in there so there’s plenty of replay value just from the base set.   Each expansion could add an entire new faction or two that balanced with the ones in the base set.     You wouldn’t have nearly as much choice with setups as you do in the current game, but if the end result was a much more cohesive, balanced, and well-designed game, I think it would be a big improvement.

     

    #2820

    Ben
    Keymaster

    The automatic/mandatory unloading as home has brought up a few issues over the years (mostly when interacting with a few key abilities), so I’d rather that rule get scrapped entirely.  Make unloading require an actual [explore?] action instead, or at least make it something that has to be actively triggered by a player beyond just arriving.

    That would certainly open up some rather interesting possibilities.  I think I mentioned on Podcast #40 (not released yet) with Xerecs that you could have a gold ship dock at home, and then an enemy could use Hoarding Gold to take the gold before it could be unloaded!  I do see it as a somewhat realistic alternative rule, since it would certainly take some effort to get heavy stuff off the ship and secured on an island or base.  That said, I do like how gold is automatically unloaded at home.

    I agree with some of your thoughts in the last paragraph.  I still think faction packs could be a good way to go for Pirates specifically.  However, I LOVE how much quantity there is in the game (especially since it helps with massive campaign games), so less variety and customizability is a trade-off I’d be hesitant towards.  Although it would be fine if any new stuff was completely compatible with the game we know, since then there’s a lot of variety from the original sets where you’d never come close to running out of potential fleets/etc.

    Just thought of another idea that I’ll make a new thread about….

    #2878

    Rick
    Participant

    A living game is one where the designers, distributors, and players all advance the game over time.

    Taking extreme care to mitigate ‘game creep’.

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